Conversation with Rafał Skępski, erstwhile Secretary of the National Cultural Council and Deputy Minister of Culture

przegladdziennikarski.pl 3 weeks ago

Karol Chejarek (Karol)

Rafals, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for late honoring me with a PTWK diploma, which you are the president of, but above all a large essayist (I late wrote about your books in the online writer Review, in my “books that may interest you”). We'll come back to your literary activity in our conversation, but for now I want to ask you:

As you measure the current state of culture, which was not mentioned in the last election run for the office of President.

Does it not hurt your heart in this dualism to have many creative relationships (divided into “old” and “new”) and, above all, to underestimate the “power” of creative environments – as an advisory body – in cultural improvement plans by supporting their financial activities?

In general, I am referring to the wider PRESENCE OF CULTURE IN PUBLIC LIFE... through publishing activities, theatres, museums, fresh investments... etc., etc.

Rafał Skapski (Rafal):

I'll start with the PTWK Diploma. It's good that even this modest way of honor is crucial to you, since you remember him. The Polish Society of Book Publishers celebrated the century of existence and we decided to grant occasional diplomas to people who, in our opinion, deserved the issues of the Polish book. In this group you could not miss, you were not only the manager of the book department in our ministry, and you started your professional career with a bookstore.

Charles:

Who else would you add to the list of SAVED people – what did you call it beautifully – “for the Polish book”? For my part these were: Tadeusz Hussak, Kazimierz Majerowicz, Andrzej Wasilewski, Stanisław Bebenek, Michał Jagła, Kazimierz Molek, including our erstwhile heads Aleksander Krawczuk and Bogdan Suchodolski. Add a fewer more names from yourself as the president of PTWK and manager of PEW.

Rafal:

You've mentioned the well-deserved, but unfortunately the dead. We did not separate them, though their memory is permanent.

Charles:

That's good, due to the fact that that's how it should be! To remember the people who deserve it, due to the fact that the past of Polish culture SHOULD be one, no substance what political option is in power! (We will not change the story, and from the merits of those who have left – among others, our identity results).

Rafal:

Charles is right! AI would definitely add Edward Piliszek, the head of Arkad or Andrzej Adamus, manager of Lower Silesian Publishing home to this list you are asking about. And yet the graphic designers without whom the book would not have its charm and art, their editors, literary critics... And from the living? It is besides essential to mention Andrzej Kurz, who created the size of the Krakow Literary Publishing House, who competed for his leadership for a "place on the podium" with PIW or Reader.

Charles:

I'd say it's equal to PIW and the Reader. To this list I would add Jerzy Ziołek, Stanisław Zahorodny, b. PWN directors, Our Bookshop, WNT, PAX, Music Publishing House, LSW, SiT. But let's get back to you and my first question.

Rafal:

I'd love to. I am already utilized to the fact that culture does not be in political discussion.
About 15 years ago, I followed the speeches of the next prime ministers since 1985. Unfortunately, cultural issues appeared in them most likely once, twice at most. And which was the Prime Minister? – I don't even remember.

Charles:

Isn't that Mieczysław Rakowski?

Rafal:

Yes, yes – Rakowski certainly, but I do not remember the other.
And speaking of the current situation, the presidential election – I will say that omitting culture in the discussion – is not only the responsibility of the staff, but besides the speakers.

Charles:

So, specifically, whose? – justify this “straight from the bridge”.

Rafal:

Unfortunately, the candidates themselves. I can only justice presidential debates, after Poland I did not follow candidates. I will give an example from our side, due to the fact that it hurts the most. Rafał Trzaskowski, a man who was read, said nothing about culture during debates.
Also another candidates from the Democratic side: Biejat, Holovnia, Zandberg. I think she mentioned something to Senishyn, but I might be wrong.
I remember 1 of Donald Tusk's programming appearances. That was before 2015. I listened carefully to the word culture. It didn't. At 1 point, the word “instruments” electrified me. For a second I thought naively that he would say something about philharmonics, orchestras, musical education of youth... He talked about financial instruments, not a word of culture.
And yet, having a speech written by colleagues, all speaker, all experienced politician leaves the text written to him and tells something from himself, so culture could and should mention it, not even seeing it on the cards prepared for him.

Charles:

Let us leave this very sad issue in our speech, and let us return to the question (essential in our conversation) about the assessment of the current state of culture.

Rafal:

As I realize it, it is about the state of the whole, i.e. the top shelf, the 1 recognisable in the planet and the regional, closest source. This is not a conversation for 1 question, but for a longer conversation, or even for a series of conversations.

Charles:

Yeah, that's right. This is simply a subject for the full discussion, but let's confine ourselves for now to assessing the state of culture in the context of the silent attitude of presidential candidates.

Rafal:

I erstwhile identified 3 areas of contact between culture and politics, culture and the state.

Charles:

Remind them due to the fact that it has been many years since we worked straight together, and the fresh generations surely no longer remember your celebrated “division”.

Rafal:

Well,

area one:

it is the responsibilities of the state, including universal education, artistic education, guarantees of participation in culture, protection of heritage, maintenance of national and local institutions, provision of information on cultural events.

Two:

It's support. The state should facilitate and support the activities of the social cultural, artistic, regional movement, show assistance to private managers, artistic experimentation, debuts.

Charles:

Nothing to add, nothing to put; everything remains as current as possible! And the 3rd area?

Rafal:

It is the state's non-interference in creative and commercial cultural activity.

Charles:

Raphael, thank you for reminding me. So what should we anticipate from politicians and officials in Poland for the improvement and dissemination of culture today?

Rafal:

Understanding and respecting not only this division, but fulfilling their assignments!

Charles:

What do you mean?

Rafal:

I think, watching the “CULTURE” almost all day, that the condition of a widely understood culture is most mostly good and it is rather simple to prove.

Charles:

What makes you say that?

Rafal:

We spend most of our time with our wife now outside of Warsaw, in the Judiciary. There culture is simply a constant, almost regular component of the lives of people of all ages. It's truly upbuilding.

Charles:

Give examples:

Rafal:

This is an different and sometimes amazing attachment to tradition. It is almost a pride in the regional outfit, besides worn by young people, of course not all day, but since Christmas or during performances of many artistic bands here. There are quite a few them, in all municipality, and in many villages in the municipality there are teams of local dancers and singers in various age groups.

Rural Housewives are treated unfairly, even mockingly, besides frequently in the "urban" reception. And there are highly valuable people working in them, among another things, I will usage the term, regional "food tradition".

It seems to me that there is simply a much higher percent of young people in music schools than in another regions, and surely in cities. Returning to regional costumes, I frequently see in them, clearly arrogant of their performances the girls who go to school the next day in fashionable clothes and hairstyles. They reconcile tradition with modernity. Yesterday I saw a friend of the Sądzieczanka, a prominent Warsaw oncologist, receiving the professorial nomination – she wore the outfit of Lachów Sądecki.

Charles:

Great, that's all you're talking about. (Maybe that's why the presidential candidates felt it was unnecessary to talk about culture)?

So I'm gonna ask you about your assessment of the situation in creative relationships?

Rafal:

I'll just finish the subject just now...

Charles:

Sorry to interrupt...

Rafal:

...I inactive observe the cultural exclusion of non-metropolitan areas so as not to usage the word province. This is what prof. Jerzy Adamski pointed out in the study about the state of culture. He was vice-president of the National Cultural Council in the mid-1980s.

Not much's changed since then.

Charles:

Again, I'll ask you for examples...

Rafal:

This survey by Jerzy Adamski was original, but approved as the authoritative position of the full National Cultural Council.

It should be recalled that the Council was a statutory advisory body of the Council of Ministers. It operated for 8 years, formally established in the fall of 1982, actually in the spring of 1983, dissolved in 1990.

An crucial component of this law was the establishment of a Cultural improvement Fund. Without going into detail, it was a permanent, automatically increased annually, extra-budget Fund of the Minister of Culture, whose spending directions required the opinion of our Council.

Charles:

What a wonderful initiative that was! Already in “Plastic” there was the State Plastic Procurement Fund, the Fund for Material Aid and Scholarship for Art Artists and Enterprise (besides PSP) Polish Art, the Centre for Contemporary Art in Ujazdowski Castle was besides established, but finish his message about the National Council of Culture.

Rafal:

Compared to erstwhile years, this was a revolutionary solution that stabilized the situation in culture. Today, thanks to the European funds and the copy from the totalizt introduced in my day, the situation of cultural finance is incomparable.

Returning to your question, I do not have this study at hand, but I remember 2 crucial issues, unfortunately – inactive after so many years of current time: in general education, the deficiency of programmes in the field of cultural education, and in parallel the deficiency of staff to conduct music, art and shaping the needs of young people to participate in culture.

The second point is the cultural exclusion of society. There are many factors here, and any of them made me realize this Adamic Report.

Charles

Like what?

Rafal:

For example, besides uncommon communication grid, and this after 1990, given bus and rail communications, has worsened. What does this gotta do with culture? – individual will ask. It does, due to the fact that from a tiny village to the theatre or cinema, you gotta get to something, and inactive not all household has a car.

Cultural exclusion is besides the phenomenon of disappearing, at an astonishingly advanced rate, from the map of powiat Poland and municipal bookstores. The deficiency of shaping the needs of young people to participate in culture, as I just mentioned, results in the exclusion and conviction of these people on cabarets of a scandalously low level or on songs about panties in dots.

Charles:

I agree with you.

Rafal:

That's another crucial observation.

Modern performance halls in Katowice, Wrocław or Szczecin do not stimulate the request to participate in concerts in Poland. I won't mention the function of the media. It's a separate subject...

Charles:

Tell me what you don't like about the media.

Rafal:

Disco-polo, cabaretons, tacky series, different dances with celebrities who only consider themselves stars. Shame on you, like Zaheada utilized to say.

Charles:

Then let's get back to the question of creative relationships.

Rafal:

Well, twice the creators got "on their backs": martial law and transformation. The martial law – in my opinion – prevented any very dangerous situations, so it was inevitable to me, but unfortunately it besides brought many mistaken, besides hasty decisions.

Charles:

Like what?

Rafal:

I am reasoning of dissolving creative relationships and creating fresh ones in their place, with the approval of power. I don't think we've always talked about this. I took part in high-level conferences about the future of ZPAP (Union of Polish Artists).

We were at the very end of the decision chain, of course, behind you. I remember that your arguments, in order to effort to get along with the president of Puciata as long as possible, stopped convincing the decision-makers. Without going into detail, without your knowledge, voluntarily, utilizing the intermediation of the sculptor's cousin, I obtained the word of Puciata that he would step down, but he made a condition that he wanted to be invited to the planned art gathering at the ministry and would propose it there.

However, his name was yet not on the list of invited. The power feared he would come, he would not step down, and he would protest.

Charles:

Rafale, that's precisely what happened!

Rafal:

Parallel to these actions of power, “underground, rebellious” organisations were involved, clearly contesting it. They came out after the transformation of 1989. All these organizations, regardless of their pedigree, gained nothing from the fresh doctrine of the state economy.

Charles:

Even on the contrary, they lost the entity grants and the fresh ones did not get them.

Rafal:

Yes, this is where Balcerovich's improvement was fair in its own way. And all of this happened in the consciousness of the then minister (Izabela Cywińska), who besides revoked the artists' peculiar position of the studio, which is what the creators gained erstwhile you were manager of the department of art. You've been putting me down to work on regulations that give artists a discount on studio fees.

Charles:

Yes, it was frightening, all the more so due to the fact that the Minister did not even let us to discuss it with each other, although we tried. It's expected to be like she wanted to be.

Rafal:

I remember the president of 1 of these “new” unions, powerfully connected with the opposition of the 1970s and 1980s asked me (I was then Deputy Minister of Culture), why the ministry did not cover the costs of renting the office of their organization and purchasing various office materials. He regretted having to buy light bulbs out of his own money. I heard the words, “You yourself fought for it.”

The division into “new” and “old” unions inactive exists today.

Charles:

And what to do about it now?

Rafal:

It's a problem of the environment, and I think the causes of it are unnecessarily remembered. The filmmakers did not share, phase artists long reconciled, this dualism inactive persists among artists and literates. The second have late had a 3rd or possibly 4th relationship; in this case, it is not political disputes, but a difference in the interests of individual groups of creators.

I may be sharpening my assessment, but neither the creative environments (the authorities of their organisations) nor the various councils that have been called up from time to time do not represent any real support, origin of cognition or field of consultation for decision-makers (not only in culture). That's besides bad.

Charles:

Yeah, that's a shame. But possibly if the current power “in culture” had initiated a public discussion on this matter?

Rafal:

Charles. In my opinion, the alleged environmental consultation is mostly fiction. Around 2005 there was a fashion for expert teams with a classified composition that measure the applications of creators and organizers. According to the shrewd application forms, unknown experts read by name.

A verdict is issued if affirmative – it's luck, if negative – then in general the applicant has no chance to talk to anyone about his task (it has late eliminated even the anticipation of appeal). Directors, employees of these many recently created “National Institutes”, about large budgets, mention to nonsubjective (?) judgments of these nameless bodies!

Charles:

I can't perceive to this, but I do. I've besides encountered a akin case recently.

Rafal:

I callback erstwhile I was inactive Deputy Minister, as the manager of the department came with various requests and requests; sometimes they were just lists, and on each paper was his written suggestion. I approved it, or made written amendments and directed it to the minister. He signed, seldom changed anything, but besides always with the signature and stamp on the document. If individual wanted to appeal, they knew who and at what level. The work for decisions was clear, personalized.

Charles:

Once again, I say it was! And what kind of discussions we had at the minister's college. I remember that as secretary of the Council you were invited by prof. Krawczuk.

Rafal:

I remember this atmosphere and this large group of directors, advisors, experts with whom the minister discussed and consulted the current affairs. How I missed specified a meeting, respective years later, erstwhile I was a Deputy Minister.

Charles:

Missed a meeting? What do you mean?

Rafal:

Ministers Celiński and Dąbrowski did not work together. I am reasoning about specified meetings and meetings with vice ministers, directors, etc. There were a fewer for the first, for the second, no more.

Celinski consulted us individually, had his views, but he accepted my argument, and it happened, not so rarely, that he changed his mind.Remember, he was aiming at covering the occupation minister's portfolio, and he got the Ministry of Culture. The latter, too, spoke individually, but announced his decisions, leaving virtually no area for discussion.

Charles:

I worked with Tejchma, Żygulski, Krawczuk... I don't callback specified practices. We don't have adequate time to talk about this period in your life today, but can you sign off on a fewer points on your years of ministering? (Be, however, a very honorable function.)

Rafal:

I'm not going to do the balance sheet, I'm just going to talk about a fewer episodes, but it's very crucial to me.

I took a dinner, staying in Wrocław, prof. Larissa Kruszelnicka, manager of the Stefanyk Library of Lviv, where the Ossolineum collections are left. It is estimated that 30% is in Poland, the remainder further there.

The manager of our Ossolineum complained that Kruszelnicka powerfully did not agree to debt collections to Poland, which Polish scientists inactive seek. Assuming that I would not get it, after creating an highly pleasant atmosphere, I asked whether our researchers would be able to digitize papers – she agreed without hesitation.

Charles:

How about another example?

Rafal:

While in Drohobych, I watched any frescoes by Bruno Schulz. This was shortly after the celebrated Mossad action. In 1 of the villa, Schulz's wall drawings were found, it was a real sensation. But even greater was the acquisition by Mossad envoys of the inhabitants of this villa, the cuffing of frescoes, and the secret transport of them to Israel. 3 or 4 of little artistic value remained on the walls, but it was always “Sulz”! They were handcuffed and placed in a local museum. The visitors were not available.

When I was in Lviv, I asked them to take me to Drohobych and take me to the museum. It turned out to be closed on that day, and frescoes are inactive inaccessible to anyone's eyes. Despite my position, the manager has long refused. erstwhile I informed him that my wife was the daughter of Schulz's student. We watched the frescoes, we could take pictures, and in the end I got approval to rent these so guarded paintings to show them in Poland.

Charles:

Anything else?

Rafal:

Wyborcza paper published information that Barbara Piasecka-Johnson has an inkunabule from the 15th century – the Book of Urban Rights of Głubczyc. The author of the article besides appealed to the Minister of Culture to redeem it for half a million zlotys. Andrzej Celiński commissioned me to conduct negotiations. Without going into detail, the position of Mrs Piasecka's representatives for a long time has been inflexible, but I have yet obtained the handover of the Book completely free of charge.

Charles: Bravo!

Rafal:

In the first weeks of office, Minister Celiński obtained the approval of Krystyna Łybacka to abandon culture any of the gross from numerical games. Lybacka had a athletics in her supervision, and as a consequence – she was subject to the Sports Totalizer and its profits. The oral agreement of ministers had to take legal form. I was appointed to carry out my work and the partners were Deputy Ministers of Education and athletics and Finance. The negotiations were difficult, the problems were piled up, my partners were not at all willing to fulfill the promise of the Minister of Lybacka. However, this money, the sum of money, succeeded in creating a separate, non-budget financing of movie production.

Charles:

Go on to talk about specified facts, due to the fact that IT MAY be something that could be done present – for artists, writers, theatres, activities of museums, cultural centres?

Rafal:

For example, I was liable for adapting national (cultural) rules to EU standards.

Charles:

WHAT an crucial substance it was and inactive is!

Rafal:

One issue was the introduction of a VAT charge on books, which was in force in most EU countries. There was a large deal of effort and argument that Brussels yet agreed: 0 for 5 years!

Charles:

I want your successors could have extended the deadline.

Rafal:

But speaking of Vat, that's another story.

The Ministry of Finance prepared VAT taxation with the press. In the course of government and parliamentary work (in the Committee on Culture), we successfully defended low-cost regional publications, published by cultural societies, community lovers, cities, associations of regional past researchers, etc.

The task went to the finance committee at the end, where our findings were deleted without informing us. The Sejm passed this and it was only at the time of work in the legislature that individual informed me that in the bill, by the Sejm already adopted, there was VAT on those letters, which would be their end.

Charles:

And then what did you do?

Rafal:

I called the legislature Marshal and asked for the chance to talk during the plenary session, on which the draft parliament was to be approved. After the speech of Deputy Minister of Finance Mrs. Irena Ozhóg (she had only the authority of the Prime Minister to represent the government and present the bill), Marshal Longin Pastusiak gave me the floor.

Charles:

I remember him very positively!

Rafal:

I made arguments and went back to my place. I was approached by an angry minister, announcing a study to the Prime Minister on my self-proclaimed, unauthorized speech, which was agreed in a government task already adopted by the Sejm. Fortunately, during the recess, a fewer senators stood up for me, explaining that I might have acted against regulations, but on a good cause. And I proved that despite my duty, the Sejm Finance Committee did not notify me of the change in the bill.

Charles:

I besides took invitations to local events very seriously, due to the fact that the law is the law and applies to ALL of them.

Rafal:

Charles is right! My presence due to its function, gave organizers a sense of value. Many times I heard that thanks to my visit, for the first time a voivode appeared in this village.

I went, for example, against the proposition of an authoritative from the ministry, to yearly Watra Lemkowska.

The organizers were amazed and satisfied that the minister had arrived, in addition with distinctions for them.

But the biggest surprise was erstwhile I entered into my speech – in Russian, in their native language – a fragment of a poem by the Lemko poet from the 19th century. I tried, as shortly as time and circumstances allowed, to appreciate specified local projects.

Charles:

These episodes, as you called them, were and are crucial not only to you, but to our culture. It's permanent credit. Was your experience utilized after you left the ministry?

Rafal:

Perhaps not only in culture, but more widely in another areas, the experience of predecessors is not regarded as a value to be derived from.

Charles:

How can this change so that the past of the country and its culture does not start with all change of power “OD NEW” and is in major improvement projects a continuation?

Rafal:

During the 20 years of the PTWK president, I was only invited twice to participate in an opinion and advisory team. Back then, their warehouses were inactive public. I'll most likely surprise you, which minister did this... Kazimierz M. Ujazdowski from 2005 to 2007.

Charles:

He, PiS-owiec, did not hesitate to perceive to the voice of the leftist erstwhile deputy minister...

Rafal:

So, going back to the beginning of our conversation, I believe that those opinions that are presently being put forward by expert committees, which are de facto deciding on the allocation of funds, are just a veil and an excuse for officials. I do not believe in the effectiveness of social advisory teams, they are created (if any) for “the honour of the house, not for the real request of politics.I say this with 8 years of the National Cultural Council in mind.

Charles:

Then tell me more about NRK: what was prof. Bogdan Suchodolski's boss?

Rafal:

Oh, that's another question for a separate, long conversation. But I'll effort to tell you briefly about the most crucial things. I'll start with anecdote.

I went to advanced school in fresh Hut, there was a large large bookshop at the Book House. You most likely remember the Book home ran the lottery. destiny cost, if I remember correctly, 2 and a half gold. Another price I remember is simply a bottle of (0,33 l) apple juice called Liquid Fruit for 4 gold. Back to the coupons, most were “empty”. It was uncommon to find a five- or ten-gold prize in 1 of the books that facilitated the acquisition of the book. But for 4 “empty” fates 1 could bury on a peculiar shelf, where permanent books withdrawn from the trade, unsold.

So, not truly hoping for a win, I would complete the “empty” fates and return home with books. Imagine there was a lot about painting, even detailed, due to the fact that I remember the Flemish school. I read them!

One, obtained in this way, I did not read – she was besides smart. But I was captivated by the author's name, his sound: SU-CHO-DOL-SKI. And in 1983, I went to the tiny part of his closest associates! What a coincidence.

The professor, then 80 years old, had a wonderful quality: trust. A fewer of His associates – they were young people, younger than Him by 40 or even 50 years. This squad was completed by a permanent secretary of the Council, and the prof. blindly approved his decisions; he himself served as a social secretary. All he had at his disposal was a car with a driver and an office with a secretary. He was not in office, only erstwhile his responsibilities required.

Charles:

I besides – not hiding – admired his cognition of culture very much.

Rafal:

It was actually versatile, I'd say full. He had respect for his technological and artistic background, although of course any of his friends did not approve of his commitment to power.

The prof. had never held office before, for only 1 word he was Deputy technological Secretary of the Polish Academy of Sciences.

He erstwhile told me that twice before he had been urged by envoys first by Gomulki, then Gierka to take up any crucial positions, he always refused. So why did he take office from Jaruzelski? – I asked.

Charles

I'm very curious. What did he say?

Rafal:

Because I trust him.

He preferred theatre alternatively than philharmonics or performance halls, but above all, books. 2 days before gathering a abroad writer, he asked who it was.After 2 days, during the conversation, he made quotes from guest books. No card!

The prof. besides supported the movement of regional cultural associations, regional love and technological associations. I took over from him the perception of culture as an absolute full of human life and activities.

I learned peace and any distance to solve problems without unnecessary emotions.

Isn't that enough?

Charles:

That's enough.

Rafal:

As you know, I've been secretary of the Council for the last fewer years, so I've had almost regular contact with a professor, far beyond business. But it's a separate conversation if you're interested.

Charles:

Rafale, I'll be interested. But today, just 1 more question: what are you up to today, being on the EMERITOR?

I know you compose a lot about a fewer of your books, and I've been praising them, but not due to the fact that we've known each another and respected each another for years, but due to the fact that I valued them. So tell me, what else are you going to compose about?

Rafal:

I am curious in the past of Poland for about the last 200 years. I am fascinated by uncovering in the past of my highly branched household events and crucial characters of these moments, in which my ancestors entered this large past of Poland.

Three of my first books had a household theme, but the pretext for telling stories was: Witos, an outstanding neurologist from the interwar period or Warsaw merchant, a likely first of Wokulski.

Thank you for your praise.

It started, as you know, with 3 fat volumes of my grandmother's memory from my father. I developed them—nearly 2,000 pages—and published them in the Reader.They were delighted with them, even before the printing, by Joseph Hen, Wiesław Mystic and Eustachy Rylski. The second is now reading my next book, and I anticipate a fewer sentences from him on the 4th page of the cover. The book will have Title: Antoni and his children and will be a communicative of the Skepski family, starting with the Bar confederation, i.e. the last 4th of the 17th century.

Apart from the Bar Confederate, there will be his descendants plotting against the invaders, the insurgents of January, the participants of the First and Second Wars, and the 1920 War...

Everything – not only from the background of actual events, but enriched with all kinds of my discoveries, specified as the fact that my grandfather's half-brother, an injured insurgent from 1863, nursed George Turowicz's grandmother. And it's not just an icon of journalism. To have this conversation, I interrupted for a minute the correction of the already complex text.

The second book, which will besides be published in autumn, is intended for children. I have 5 grandchildren, the oldest is six, the youngest month. Before they scope for my “serious” books about the family, I decided to present respective people and events utilizing photos from my household album.

So it is simply a richly illustrated communicative of Grandpa (and Grandma) whom the girls perceive to. I may have been able to compose this in an accessible way for a young reader, or possibly a listener, due to the fact that the book will most likely be read to children by adults.

The renowned publishing home of children's and youth literature Literature from Łódź noticed in this household communicative any universalism of presenting the destiny of Poland and Poles. I might add that I have 2 adult grandchildren (21 and 19), but they are already curious in my adult books. I'm besides reasoning about the book next year. It'll be a bow to the household from Mama's side. erstwhile again, this household communicative will become part of Polish fate, this time reaching the beginning of the 17th century in Żmud, Lithuania and present-day Belarus, in the Donetsk Basin and Siberia. And the names of Karol Szymanowski and his family, Jan Karski, Wojciech Korfanty, Antoni Ossendowski or the American ex-president Herbert Hoover will appear.

Charles:

Thank you! I'm grateful to you for this conversation, for the seriousness you treated her with! To honesty!

Rafal:

Thank you for the time you were my head of the ministry. I think I learned a small from you. You were a work enthusiast, authentically and contagiously enjoying all success of your own and your employees. Working in the National Council of Culture and in the ministerial office, I confidently duplicated your respect and appreciation, even love for artists and their accomplishments. How many wonderful people have I met through this work, how many have I been in close and even friendly contacts...

Charles:

Here we go again for a separate conversation.

Rafal:

I'm glad – so I hold my word!

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