A discussion of scholars on the book The Last Rakowiecka Prison, published by the „Myśl Polska” Publishing home of the interview-reka with Mateusz Piskorski conducted by Tomasz Jankowski, was late held in the channel studio Against Censur.
The conclusions of her reading were discussed by the political scientist Prof. Stanislaw Bielen and sociologist and economist Prof. Paweł Kozłowski.
The thing about threats and traps
Prof. Stanisław Bielen: Today we present a book freshly published a fewer months ago under the title Last prisoner of Rakowiecka. The book received quite a few feedback in the publicist community, as evidenced by various media statements, including critical ones. Our goal present is to present not so much the criticism of her hero and interlocutor, but to reflect on the cognitive values and inspirations that come from her. This is due to the fact that I personally consider a certain event, both in the editorial and publishing markets. The book is elegantly, nicely published, with illustrations to which it is worth paying attention, as well as any preliminary quotes to each of the chapters that the interviewors thought appropriate. It is published in the Library of Polish Thought, the publication of “Polish Thought”, a weekly magazine whose editor is the protagonist of the book, Dr. Mateusz Piskorski. Tomasz Jankowski, besides known in the “Polish Thought” environment from his publications, talks with him. I wish... Professor, focus not so much on reconstructing the book's contents. That's what readers are for, to get to know all detail. The book, or this story, is conducted in a very fast rhythm. You could say it's full of amazing trivia, even so to put it. It extends not only the horizon in terms of cognition of our times, our first and foremost state and strategy in it, but besides the people who form this strategy and frequently lead the state, our homeland to specified a way that occurs erstwhile we look closely at it. Matthew Piskorski is simply a large storyteller. If it wasn't for what he's saying, it's not a chat. This is simply a communicative of the dramatic, even tragic moments of destiny of his own, as well as certain dangers, threats that lie in our country for decent people, brave people, people who appreciate the truth, but – most importantly – for insiders, people who have their opinions, their opinions about what is happening around us. Since I said that we would not undertake substantive reconstruction, I would like us to focus on a fewer layers. Namely on 1 side on the biographical layer. How does a politician mature in Poland today? What opportunities did Matthew Piskorski gotta go through various attempts at radicalism, naivety, romanticism to what he defines – and so does his interlocutor – to political realism. It seems present that being in politics only on the basis of idealistic, romanticist notions simply presupposes defeat. But on the another hand, it turns out that around us there are more specified romantics, idealists, I would even say con artists erstwhile it comes to ideas, visions, wishfulness, than realists. So what do we do? Can we follow Matthew Piskorski’s example of maturing for realistic analyses and assessments? due to the fact that what strikes this book is primarily his ability to diagnose the political situation in Poland and draw conclusions from it. Even for the large price of imprisonment. Another subject I would like to rise is the diagnosis of this political system. What situation are we in? Are various desperate tones, alarmist calls that we bow to any catastrophe, that we are before any fall, decay, etc. – are these truly right suspicions? What are the consequences, what are the implications of specified conversations, specified a diagnosis? This is simply a wonderful book that should be classified as textbook aid in political and political analysis, due to the fact that it should be noted that Dr. Mateusz Piskorski is not only a dry and political person, and a political publicist, but he is besides a polytologist, he is simply a researcher, he is an analyst, who shows how careful it is to approach different assessments, how easy 1 can be mistaken. It is especially interesting for me that the protagonist of this book in many places admits to making mistakes. And this is simply a trait that is not in the political world. How essential this feature is in all age, and present in peculiar – that those who are liable for the state, above all the ruling ones, realize not only their responsibility, but besides their responsibility for the mistakes they make and how many harm they do. Professor, let's start with the first line.
Are you certain it's the last one?
Prof. Paweł Kozłowski: First, if you'll let me to explain to you, to you and myself why I'm here. I'm not a frequent visitor here. I am not associated with "Thinking of Poland", although I read more frequently than any another press release in Poland, so it is close to me, but I do not full identify myself. But I think I read this book soon, as it appeared a fewer months ago.
I read it in two, possibly 3 days, but alternatively 2 days and I was and I am shocked. This is simply a moving book, not for sentimental and emotional reasons. It's a moral book. Germany has a word that does not have an equivalent in the Polish region, but the closest is “to be ashamed of others”.
So, as I read this book – I say I am not the only 1 – I was ashamed of our country, for our rulers, for our system, for the fact that specified a thing can be done with a man. In this case, his name is Mateusz Piskorski. I don't think he's the only 1 we're talking about. What else did I say, which is straight related to the questions you asked? He has a fantastic balance, he can keep a balance that changes. Find a transition between being a contestant and an observer.
Not accidentally, he is simply a investigator of politics, but he is besides an active participant, that is, he creates Polish reality. Most people who practice politics now are very hard to call politicians. Bronisław Łagowski calls this ellipse of people a political bohemian. This is, in my opinion, a more accurate term. I will usage the word “politics” due to my linguistic habit. For most politicians the main task is to be in the mediate of the stream, mainstreamum.
This is perfect. For Matthew Piskorski, the main task is to be yourself. And if I'm in the mediate of the stream, I should be wondering why I'm here.
Isn't that an expression of my conformism, or has the current changed so much that it's where I am? If it's the another one, it's all right. If it's the first, it should trigger my utmost caution.
And so did his biography from the very beginning. Szczecin, interest in hard stone music, no candy. Being, if you call this attitude somehow, a nonconformist on the verge of rebellion, discord. And this disagreement at first afraid the sphere of culture and everyday life. It later became a political disagreement. And politics means identifying with people who don't win. I can usage a stronger word: with the losers, which is actually the majority. With losers – not necessarily in a material sense. With those who are postponed by the political class and treated as an election vote only and do not have their representation. They're called claimsmen. That's why I'm here, that's why I read this book. And for 1 more reason. I'm not certain that's the title. Last prisoner of Rakowiecka should not have a question mark at the end. If he doesn't have a question mark at the end, it may be due to the fact that there is no prison or detention on Rakowiecka anymore. A museum was created. This is no longer a prison. But if it were there, I'm not certain that Mateusz Piskowski is the last, or that he will be the last. The literal mention to Rakowiecka may have been this: he closed the premises.
Intrasterility
Prof. Stanisław Bielen: If I may mention to this – it is very accurate, customs. Watching the way of life and the political way of the protagonist of this book, I highlighted first of all what I frequently mention in my another statements. Namely, for this class, for this elite, for this ruling group we call politicians, people should be recruited. Is it spontaneous, or is it born? How different elite theorists said that simply talents are scattered in societies and naturally uncover themselves. Well, I, on the example of Matthew Piskorski, see a real talent, a boy with predispositions, with certain life conditions, due to the fact that there were these trips with his parents, they were increasing up in multicultural, multilingual environments. It's a large asset. This is learning the language that is lingua franca present – English, among those who talk this language daily, etc. Well, this hero grows into different environments, but it can be said how he mentions in respective places that he has sometimes barely escaped various incidents, accidents, etc. Yes, so erstwhile he talks about it, he talks about a certain school of life, not forgetting that the primary value of this school of life is learning. I truly am impressed erstwhile I look at the spectrum of sources to which he reaches. Of course, times were specified that an era was ending. He returns to Poland at the turn of the day with his parents and is besides young to conduct his own settlement with the erstwhile formation, but sees this fresh Poland, this fresh reality – as a marketplace of various ideas, but besides vanity, different appetites for fresh hands, fresh acquisitions, etc. And what fascinated me the most is his search for counter to what the prof. just mentioned, counter to what is fashionable, what is common, what is in the mainstream, in which everyone actually participates and what everyone wants to build. He shows that a young man can revalue this election through his own search. The top impression I've always had is his reading Jan Stachniuk and publications from the second circle. I remember that there were different doctrines, different literature in our political studies programs, but there was never 1 that was unacceptable to either 1 or the other. Stachniuk besides sat in prison, both in 1 way and another, due to the fact that no Poland could accept him for 1 reason or another. So erstwhile Matthew goes through specified attempts to reevaluate, he not only learns about what this political reality is, but he gets tough as a professional, he actually prepares for political game, to participate in political game. And the fact that he found himself very rapidly at an early age among experts, among advisors, and possibly among co-decisionrs 1 of the most crucial political forces in the end – I mean here Self-defense and Andrzej Lepper – it shows that he grew up to specified challenges very quickly. This is impressive, and for many readers it will be worth considering; what school to go through – not only through agreements, protection, connections, and yet I do not know what, to get a ticket 1 or another, to get political. The point is to gain the assets that empower a individual to take on these or another functions. 1 more additional point: after a long university career, I know how crucial it is for a political scientist to combine explanation with observation, with practice, with experience or to face certain ideas with the challenges of reality. You can envy Dr. Piskorski. He himself wrote the PhD on the basis of this experience, due to the fact that the PhD was about self-defense and all the conditions associated with it. So how much you request to have self-denial, but besides how much you request to have specified in-steerness, specified conviction and awareness deep in man – what you are actually going to do.
Not just the market
Prof. Paweł Kozłowski: I have very akin impressions, plus I'd like to add 1 or two. Namely specified a summary impression –Sometimes it happens to me, erstwhile I read books by others written, mainly not by Poles –I'm dealing with an intelligent author. This is an intelligent man, it is pleasant to be in contact with what he says through this book, and that his intelligence in a intellectual sense, as values of the mind, besides manifests itself in what he asks himself. These aren't consecutive questions, but they're there. 1 of the fundamentals is what shows the strength of the state present and it responds to it. Not straight either, but it's very clear. Not the market. If the economy is not necessarily a market, not primarily a marketplace and not only a market. Nor does the power of the state indicate the biological unity of the nation. He's not an ethnicist. The strength of the state is demonstrated by culture and community of symbols, hence Stachniuk and so on. The strength of the state is demonstrated by a good policy. From this point of view, from the second in particular, the diagnosis almost straight said by Piskorski is very painful. I mean, Polish politics is simply a series of wasted opportunities. These opportunities are not wasted by Polish people, they are not wasted by people, they are wasted by those who think they are elites, that they are leaders. It has to do with what you said: recruiting the elite. The PRL spoke of a negative selection. Real negative selection is now. The PRL spoke, not without right, of the nomenclature, but of the nomenclature and in the economical and political sphere – that is now.
Prof. Stanisław Bielen: Yes, exactly. delight note how the same people are orbiting, changing positions. We are dealing with the closure of channels of penetration into the elite. So let's decision on to the second aspect I mentioned at the beginning. How would we measure by the prism of this publication the diagnosis displayed by the characters of this book? How would we measure the political strategy in which Poland is located today? In fact, the book may be specified an addition to many readings about systems, political systems, due to the fact that it exemplifies, shows behavior, breaks procedures, by name, due to the fact that they are mentioned here by name of various negative characters who have stood in the way of the life of Matthew Piskorski. These are the heads of service or others. It is besides to be admitted that Piskorski behaves objectively here again when, even in prison, he evaluates the guards as people who are empathic, who realize the position of specified people as him. They realize the situation, the political context. It's very crucial due to the fact that this way the book is not one-dimensional, it just shows that in this...
Prof. Paweł Kozłowski: He sees people.
Prof. Stanisław Bielen: He sees people. That's what we should be paying attention to. But erstwhile he sees those people just whom the reader has to qualify negatively, due to the fact that it can be said that they are frequently people who have no opinion of their own; just like a justice who is incapable to decide whether to lock him up or release him, who consults. This reveals the sphere of the regulation of law, or the illegality and dependence of the justice on the political factor.
Pathological eliteism
Prof. Paweł Kozłowski: I asked you what to call this strategy if I were to usage 1 name, I would call it deviant or pathological eliteism. It's not like the strategy we call as members of this strategy want to be called. They want to be called liberal democracy. This has small to do with liberalism, and democracy has small to do with it; if, during the elections, and with large restrictions. Then there's no democratic control. Why do I call it that? Mateusz Piskorski differentiates and rightly has different expectations for alleged average people and another expectations for people who have power. The greater power – not necessarily just about political power (this justice is an example of this – it is besides about judicial power, about legislative power) –The bigger we should have expectations. This book proves it. The greater the power, the greater the profession. It's the elite that's the profession, not the average people. He can stand up. But not everyone can, and not everyone is expected to. average people now have a feeling of powerlessness in Poland.
Prof. Stanisław Bielen: That's right. Actually, erstwhile you fall into the clutches of this supposedly law-abiding state, the delinquent doesn't know...
Prof. Paweł Kozłowski: Kafka situation. He can't even tell how it works.
Prof. Stanisław Bielen: Yeah. He doesn't know what's waiting for him, how he's going to end up in the next day and all. That's cruel. Is this the repressive state?
Prof. Paweł Kozłowski: In a literal sense, he is an example of that he is, but in a literal sense I could call it any of the word he utilized Herbert Marcuse to describe the western state, the American state in the late 1960s: repressive tolerance. It is simply a country that ignores people who do not think as much as the elite of power. They do not necessarily go to prison or are thrown out on the street. This is happening differently, most likely in different places and especially at lower levels. But the thing is, their voice doesn't count. They're left out. So it's repression by not noticing.
Prof. Stanisław Bielen: And fear.
Prof. Paweł Kozłowski: Yes, yes. And by imposing 1 opinion.
Prof. Stanisław Bielen: And by imposing 1 opinion. Actually, the main charge against our hero on the part of the services and justice strategy – as the judge, whom Matthew in the book cites – is to influence public opinion.
Prof. Paweł Kozłowski: It's hard to get a more anti-democratic charge.
Total Fighting Democracy
Prof. Stanisław Bielen: That's the self-compromising power. So we are not just dealing with any kind of aberration in the knowing of certain values, including by the typical of this body who should defend freedom of expression, freedom of expression, or freedom of association, associations.
Prof. Paweł Kozłowski: After 1990, each squad – possibly to the least degree the government, which was Prime Minister Leszek Miller She wanted full power. She was aiming for a monocentric system.
Prof. Stanisław Bielen: And what the Prime Minister erstwhile recalled Donald Tusk: this is not a plural democracy, not a liberal democracy, but a fighting democracy.
Prof. Paweł Kozłowski: Revolutionary, we suspend laws.
Prof. Stanisław Bielen: So this is full democracy.
Prof. Paweł Kozłowski: Of course.
We're not alone.
Prof. Stanisław Bielen: We could most likely get quite a few interesting things out of this, from this aspect of the political system. But let's decision on to this 3rd element: what does this result? It's about the consequences of specified a study, an accident. What are the implications of specified diagnosis? Whether this can service only curious readers locked somewhere in their towers, or it can be a diagnosis that is worth spreading to politicians themselves, in a broader reception through the media, through journalists who are unfortunately biased and do not realize specified messages.
Prof. Paweł Kozłowski: They're part of the power.
Prof. Stanisław Bielen: They're part of power, part establishment. But what does it mean for us, as those who can advance the book, can review it, urge it and at the same time follow it?
Prof. Paweł Kozłowski: For me, the most crucial thing is the following conclusion, which is not truly addressed to politicians. The task of this kind of power, which is in Poland, is to make the public feel that if you think otherwise, then you are an exception, then you are alone. Matthew Piskorski shows that if individual thinks like him, and in any case has a akin attitude as him – he is not alone. We're not alone. There's more of us than it looks, but we just don't have the chance to meet. This book favors gathering by building a ellipse of readers.
Prof. Stanisław Bielen: I will add here that Mateusz Piskorski is now not so much a politician, but a publicist, commentator. His publications, and especially his interviews in “Polish Thoughts”, which he publishes with excellent ones – I will not mention Alexander Dugin – but many another little controversial, little well-known interviewers in Poland brought Polish opinion closer. His cognition of abroad languages, cognition of cultures, ease of contact, language communication and not only makes him scope out present through this medium, which is “Think Poland” and programs Against the Censur, to many audiences as young as he erstwhile was erstwhile he was searching erstwhile he was able to search and value.
Prof. Paweł Kozłowski: Let's hope so.
Without autoheroism
Prof. Stanisław Bielen: I always pay attention to specified optimistic notes that, in the form of book publications, the book is not so fat and is not so hard to read. It is immediately read and it fascinates a certain adventure of the author. For what is inactive crucial in this conclusion of mine, Matthew in this work of his present shows how crucial is cognition and individual experience, to struggle, or to pass through different environments, besides political, or quasi political and how crucial it is to collide with people who have or have something to say and are besides brave adequate that sometimes erstwhile Lepper pays the highest price for it. In my opinion, Mateusz Piskorski belongs to a group of heroes of our time, who not only skillfully describe and diagnose reality, but draw any conclusions from it, most frequently critical of the strategy we are dealing with, but besides bringing quite a few specified fresh insight in the world. possibly we missed the point due to the fact that we don't have time for everything, but at the end of our conversation, I'd like to point out that this is the type. globtrottera, this is the kind of world...
Prof. Paweł Kozłowski: He'd like to contact the places he thinks.
Prof. Stanisław Bielen: And due to the fact that he was in many places – it's hard to believe in as many delicate places in the planet – it's thanks to his view of reality, the judgement of many events is completely different from those of the various morons who make judgments about others. They are reforming China, just like 1 of the journalists who asked him – quotes this question in the book –When we spoke of China, it was not about relations, about the economy, about benefits, but about: will we support free Tibet and will we claim human rights? And Matthew shows what an absurd position this is, due to the fact that he asked this writer directly: – Would you like the Chinese or another Poland to set it in this position and improvement it according to their values? Of course there is no answer to this question, due to the fact that everyone will answer: – Of course not. We are “specialists” not only from reforming, but from making...
Prof. Paweł Kozłowski: Teaching others. Something that seems worth emphasizing after reading this book or before reading to those who have not yet read it: 2 personality features that I have already mentioned, but I will repeat them. The first is intellectual nonconformism. The second is simply a image of a man who truly had a dramatic life, so far, really. due to the fact that he stood by his ideas and was a nonconformist. And at the same time, it is simply a image of a man in whom with specified a life there is never a shred of autoheroism. This is the complete other of those members of the modern elite who exposure how much blood they gave, and in addition they want thousands or millions of gold compensation for this blood. No autoheroism. And the conclusion is even wider: the full book is simply a large criticism and polemic with the state of Polish politics. It boils down to what is now the main component in blackmailing this policy. It is simply a “Polish state's right” which is based on Russian phobia. It is to be the present litmus paper of relation to Poland. If individual is not affected by rusophobia, i.e. if individual is for example a political realist, he does not treat Russia as a peculiar country in the world, but as 1 of many – it is "violating" the Polish state's right, and the holder of the state's right is the self-appointed political elite in Poland. This is simply a conclusion for all man reasoning not only about politics, but about his life, how to behave in the planet now, here.
Black sheep, challenge, threat?
Prof. Stanisław Bielen: Yes, I completely agree with this conclusion. I'll just add that possibly due to the qualities that the prof. mentioned, due to the qualities of Matthew Piskorski, he is so...
Prof. Paweł Kozłowski: Black sheep.
Prof. Stanisław Bielen: Not just a black sheep. He's specified a challenge, possibly even a threat.
Prof. Paweł Kozłowski: Yeah, yeah. He's trouble.
Prof. Stanisław Bielen: It makes problem and due to the fact that it calls things by name, it has a peculiar talent, as I said, in valuing certain phenomena and processes taking place in the Republic and not only in the global environment. possibly that's the most painful thing for many different non-teachers.
Prof. Paweł Kozłowski: Probably. And his deficiency of autoheroism. erstwhile he gets out of jail, he gets out of prison, not that he's thrown out due to the fact that he doesn't want to be in jail. You don't handcuff yourself to a radiator or put it on yourself. It's not due to the fact that he wants to, it's due to the fact that they want to.
Prof. Stanisław Bielen: I hope that we have brought not only the cognitive value of the book, but besides the hero himself, so that the reader, who has not yet learned the statements, publications, and especially this book, whose protagonist is Dr. Mateusz Piskorski (talked to him by Tomasz Jankowski), will be encouraged to proceed this cognitive adventure with us. Thank you very much.
Prof. Paweł Kozłowski: Thank you and I urge reading too.
