"I thought I saw everything, but...". Fragments of interview with Donald Tuski

A.W.: – (...) Can you imagine a situation in which Mr Kamiński and Wąsik would want to enter the next session of the Sejm due to the fact that they keep that they are Members all the time and that is what president Duda thinks?

– (...) It would be very crucial for me if the most crucial people in the country, including the President, yet began to recognise the power of the law, even if it is uncomfortable from the point of view of people's interests. I don't think anyone assumes that from my point of view as Prime Minister of the Government this is simply a comfortable situation that Mr. Wąsik and Mr. Kamiński are in prison. It is truly not cool for a government that starts its work, this kind of emotion and this kind of political tension, which is the consequence of, among another things, this decision. The problem is that this fresh Poland, the reborn Polish state, in the field of law and justice, must be a state where people do their duties, which are imposed on them by law, alternatively than 1 or another politicians.

A.W.: – That's why I ask, can you imagine specified a situation?

– I have a very large imagination, and the state will act in accordance with court decisions and regulations. According to the decision of the court, confirmed by the decision of the talker of the Sejm, the mandates of the 2 Members have expired and there is so no area for negotiation (...).

A.W.: – Have you spoken to the lawyer General about asking the president to have Adam Bodnar free Mr Kamiński and Wąsik during the pardon procedure?

– I know that it has not occurred to our opponents ruling for the past 8 years to think that it is possible to effort to limit their power, even in specified a way as to call for positions specified as the lawyer General and Minister of Justice, not their organization companions, that – by rebuilding the public media – you are not looking for your organization propaganda specialists in these media, so I want to say what I said at the time of the exposé – prof. Bodnar became Minister of Justice and lawyer General due to the fact that he is not a associate of the political party. He built his authority, undisputed by anyone, as an absolutely independent man. The PiS destroyed a strategy of prosecutors independent of political power, which led to this, due to the fact that Mr. Ziobro wanted the organization minister of justice to be the lawyer General at the same time. Before we change this component of the system, before we reconstruct the independency of the prosecution, due to the fact that it requires the approval of the president – you know, veto – but as long as the president blocks these changes, due to the fact that that is what he is going to do, so long prof. Bodnar will enjoy full independence, due to the fact that that is our intention. I do not want to have in my government a minister of justice who will ask me for opinions on what to do in matters of respect for the law, respect for the law, enforcement of judgments, etc. prof. Bodnar, I have full assurance in him, but that doesn't mean that having confidence, I besides have an thought of how he should proceed. I warrant you that even though Ziobro destroyed this system, the prosecution will be independent of me in its actions and opinions (...).

... P.W.: – We have a fundamental dispute over the regulation of law. Would you and the president at the same time be able to warrant us that in specified a case (...) as the Russian maneuvering rocket that flew into our airspace on 29 December (...), Poland will talk with 1 voice?

– There is no uncertainty about it. You have noticed that the first individual I spoke to erstwhile I received information from the Minister of Defence and the Minister of the Interior and Administration about this dangerous incidental with the rocket was, of course, the President, whom I immediately called. I have no problem with that; on the contrary, in the interests of Poland, but it is besides in the interests of my government that people at the tops of power in Poland want to cooperate with each other. However, I must protest, of course you may have a different point of view, but I must protest against building this symmetry that there is any legal dualism. This is not a PiS dispute – Platform or Kaczyński – Tusk about the legal model. present we want to reconstruct the fundamental principles that should apply in all democratic country and the first rule is to respect the judgments of the courts – whether we like these judgments or not. I don't want to make a good compromise with Mr. Kaczyński, any of yours, any of mine, I have any prosecutors, you have some, you have two, I have 1 on TV. This is absurd. It's not about negotiating how many laws there are and how many lawlessness. erstwhile we made a decision on the public media, present on the prosecutor's case Minister Bodnar, on the Lords of Wąsik and Kamiński, it is not to take something for ourselves – because, I repeat, it is not at all convenient for me – only to reconstruct the regulation of law. It's painful, I feel that pain too, it's not pleasant, but we can't halt this process. There's no area to negociate that we'll do some. Either there's a regulation of law or there's cliques and cateries. Someone's saying brutally that this is the Cel plus program. I utilized this sharp shortcut in the campaign, and today, in a sense, we have the Koryto minus program, I apologize for trivialism, that is, cutting off the unreasonable privileges of the people of power. You do not even imagine what Poland will see in the coming weeks, the scale of fraud of the highest Pisan officers, especially in the companies of the State Treasury. The hair on your head is moving. I am an experienced man; I thought I saw everything.

I'm watching an interview with Tuski, given the allegations from the Law and Justices that he was besides gentle.

Unfortunately, there was no specified uncompromising journalism and sharp questions about the scandals that Dutch utilized to ask: pic.twitter.com/SKdhifIW2nM

— Velcro (@rzep8) January 13, 2024

A.W.: – Can you tell us anything?

– Not today, I want to be faithful to the procedure. This work goes on not so I can show off in the media, but to draw the legal consequences out of it and apply the appropriate procedures. It's a substance of days, weeks. We're not gonna wait. In a sense, yes, we are witnessing the cleansing of the state from these abuses and this financial, aggressive very greedy – and at the same time we want to and will do it. I will be consistent in this, showing that no more power will be unpunished...

M.C.: – Prime Minister, let us focus on another companies of the Treasury for a moment. It is not hard to find statements from politicians of today's governing sphere from the time of the campaign, who said that we would order the issue with competitions or the establishment of a peculiar appointing institution. And we hear about names that already appear in public space, nothing about contests without hearing.

– I read any of the media too, honestly amused, due to the fact that I haven't seen specified bad forecasts in a long time.

A.W.: – Elżbieta Bieńkowska is an unsuccessful forecast?

Totally. I very much respect the Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister, the Commissioner, my close associate. Someone's hurting her. It is neither in her interest nor in anyone's interest to tell specified uncreated things in the media. I don't know the origin of this speculation. Sometimes I feel like someone's either trying to do the right thing or the incorrect thing. These speculations are emerging. There'll be competitions. With Minister Budka, we will present a very precise list of these companies for the sake of the strategical safety of the state, where we will not pretend that the government will not have an influence on how and who manages these companies and why, but in all situations there will be a competition. besides this thought of nomination committees or nomination councils, it is presently being implemented by Minister Budka. These processes will be transparent. I'm not saying you're gonna have a live broadcast of any council meetings, these are stock companies. I will personally guarantee with Minister Budka that the process is transparent, clear to the public, based on clear principles, and that the competition will be a method that no 1 will be able to circumvent – in any State Treasury company. On the another hand, it is clear that the owner, especially where the state is the dominant or key owner, and where the safety of the state, for example energy, is concerned, will not pretend that we will not have expectations and recommendations, it is apparent at all. But everybody's gonna gotta go through the procedure anyway, and it's gonna be a public evaluation and a competition procedure.

M.C.: – What do you do, Prime Minister, to yet cut off this counter-edition, so that all 4 years or all political period it does not prove that it is truly worth it to thin over it? I'm talking about companies.

– What was 1 of the heaviest accusations against me erstwhile the Law and Justice Office launched a debate, or alternatively a prosecution, specified as the State Treasury companies?

M.C.: – Privatization, or sale.

The interview with Donald Tuski was great, but there were any insignificant shortcomings. Next time it'll be so much better. pic.twitter.com/dmguUAiN2x

— Viktor Kos (@Vito82488734) January 13, 2024

– So I am the grim seller of national property in their opinion. erstwhile I first became Prime Minister and I saw how the number of daughter companies, the parent companies of this country – more and more in the economy – was constantly growing, I had no uncertainty that it should have joint control and should be present in companies of strategical importance. Unfortunately, erstwhile you do not stick to this limited scope, these companies of the Treasury are doughnuts in the form of daughter, parent and sister companies, I apologize, but that is the nomenclature. Very frequently it is simply about very intuitive functions – whether in supervisory boards or boards. This will besides be a very hot debate over the next fewer weeks, erstwhile people will see how these PiS-designated characters work in these tens and hundreds of companies hidden in different locations. I haven't changed my mind. I would like you to be only now where it is truly strategical for Poland, for you, for its safety. But I am not specified a naive liberal, and I have no uncertainty that, peculiarly in the context of what is happening globally, the state must have control over these key companies, mainly energy and transmission. They know me from this – you can check it out – anyone who dares to come to me, whether from my political organization or from another coalition party, that he has here, “see, understand”, a friend and is perfectly suited to the company of the Treasury, would be his last day at the office.

M.C.: – But recommendations will be?

– Believe me, they're not in the government right now and around the government of people brave adequate to come to me and say they have a friend who... That's why I'm talking about this transparency. Recommendations are little crucial to me. It is much more crucial that already in the Ministry of State Acts there is simply a group of people who prepare this nomination process. But in the end, it will be a transparent competition procedure for the public (...).