Difficult task before Nawrock. "Like a boxer with a hand tied in the back"

Grzegorz Urbanek, Interia: You entered the Sejm in 1997 as the youngest MP. What was your election run like?

Adam Bielan, Euro MP of the Law and Justice, associate of Karol Nawrocki's electoral staff: I didn't run at all at the time. I was head of the nationwide Independent Student Association. I had a guaranteed seat on the list of National Election Action Solidarity.

The first run that I co-starred as a staff associate was Lech Kaczyński's run in the 2002 election for president of Warsaw. To this day, I believe that this was the most effective run in which I was involved, given the scale of the challenge, especially the low level of support for the candidate at the beginning.

The main competitor, Andrzej Olechowski, was to win in the first round. It ended with the decisive triumph of Lech Kaczyński, who already in the first circular was close to the presidency.

What was the key to that success?

We were building a run around the candidate's personality. Lech Kaczyński was highly respected for his function as Minister of Justice. We bet on safety at the time.

It was a time erstwhile Warsaw, after the crazy 1990s, faced a advanced level of crime. I must admit, we were campaigning back then to launch Lech Kaczyński in the presidential election 3 years later. The management of the capital was to be a circumstantial test before the conflict for the Palace.

What tools did you run in 2002?

For decades, regardless of the changing tools, the program, credibility and image of the candidate have remained at the center of the staff's activities. It was a time of strong conventional media.

Several local radio stations besides played an crucial function in the capital. So we tried to build a message to these media, but besides national broadcasters who were curious in a duel in the largest city in Poland.

How did this strategy change in the presidential run 3 years later?

First of all, we started much earlier with the another candidates. I offered to enter the game in March. It was not easy to convince colleagues in Law and Justice. I wanted to announce a candidate, along with a draft fresh constitution before Easter.

This is traditionally a time of household meetings, and at the same time an excellent chance to talk besides about politics. At the tables, among another things, the only candidate to study a start in the autumn presidential election was discussed.

We connected it to the broadcast of tv spots promoting our candidate. We did a convention at the time with large momentum in the American style. We modeled ourselves at George W. Bush's 2004 re-election convention. Parliamentary elections were held at a akin time. In PiS, we agreed that Lech Kaczyński's popularity would be a locomotive driving the party's campaign.

What was the course of that campaign?

That run taught me a lot. Even the best planned, timed strategy must flexibly respond to unexpected twists. For a long time, we were prepared for a duel in the second circular with Vladimir Cimoszewicz, so at the start of the post-communist post-communist post-communist camp.

We were forced to redesign the run at an express pace erstwhile Cimoszewicz withdrew from the fight for the presidency, and Donald Tusk grew up as the most serious candidate. This is how the clash of pro-social Poland and liberal Poland was born.

Did you at the time attach much importance to the polls?

Today, the results of social investigation can be conducted and obtained very quickly. I mean especially the results of net panels, which can be realised in a fewer hours. But subjecting the next steps to the election run only to the polls is simply a very risky strategy. I was, and I'm against it.

Was the alleged interior investigation commissioned by the staff already popular?

Despite the financing of political parties from the state budget, we had rather modest resources at the time. Companies that conducted polling preferences were little costly than today, and investigation cost a lot. That's why in 2005 we created our own telephone studio with peculiar cabins. We invited volunteers, mainly scouts, to cooperate, and for many hours they called Poles and collected opinions from voters.

Who too you had the top influence on election strategy?

Both during the presidential and parliamentary campaign, I worked intensively with Michał Kamiński and Jacek Kurski. Michael was a very creative figure at the time, and he gave quite a few ideas.

In turn, Jack Kurski's asset was his tv experience as a writer and author of documentary films. This resulted in the creation of electoral spots. Working on the election strategy, we besides benefited from the experience of parties and experts from Anglo-Saxon countries. We watched a lot, read a lot, drove to the West to gain knowledge.

For many years I have worked with various consultants, e.g. from the US. These are people with quite a few strategical and method expertise. However, direct translation of ideas from the West into Poland is impossible. These are completely different worlds.

Let's decision on to the current presidential campaign. What goals have so far been achieved in Karol Nawrocki's staff?

We started erstwhile a sense of hopelessness prevailed on the right hand. In the autumn of last year, many polls gave a triumph to Rafał Trzaskowski in the first round. present we're in a different place.

Given, above all, the increasing criticism of Donald Tusk's governments, I believe that the next elections will be a referendum on his policy. We have full consciously supported a candidate outside our party, who had no influence on the political actions of our government. It was besides a challenge due to the fact that we started with the laborious work of building the designation and image of our candidate.

We have made large advancement in this regard. Let me remind you that we already had a poll that gave Karol Nawrock a triumph against Rafał Trzaskowski in the second round.

But fresh polls show the increasing popularity of Sławomir Mentzen, who is on your candidate's heels. Karol Nawrocki's results don't knock his knees off.

Looking at the results of the investigation carried out by reliable polling, I believe that the difference between Karol Nawrocki and Sławomir Mentzen in favour of the erstwhile is besides large to be offset. Therefore, the increase in the rankings of the Confederate candidate is primarily a problem for Rafał Trzaskowski. He hoped to win the election in the first round, and if not, in overtime he could draw from the support of Simon Holown or Magdalena Biejat.

However, the candidates of the groups of the government have so low support posts that there is no crucial support for their votes for Trzaskowski. I do not imagine that Sławomir Mentzen, who is opposed to the politics of the current government, will at any point make volts and give his support to the PO politician.

The polls show that Karol Nawrocki cannot number on the full support of even PiS supporters.

According to our research, both Karol Nawrocki and Rafał Trzaskowski can number on the support of over 80% of voters by analogy of Law and Justice and civilian Coalition, i.e. groups that support both candidates. So it is not actual that Nawrocki does not enjoy the support of our party's supporters. It is actual that we have not reached the level of his 100-percent designation among PiS sympathizers. We have until May to change that.

There is no problem with designation Rafał Trzaskowski.

It's true. Rafał Trzaskowski has the highest support in the polls in the first round, due to the fact that at this phase he already collects votes of supporters of the 3rd Way or Left. His biggest problem is the second round. He's got a lot little resources to draw from. Besides, Rafał Trzaskowski competed and lost erstwhile in the presidential election. This was despite the fact that 5 years ago his situation was much more favourable than now. It was a time to fight the pandemic, with a series of unpopular restrictions, which burden the United Right government. At the time, he could have been in a contra to the PiS camp, which at the time ruled. present he is simply a government candidate and Donald Tusk's government has more and more opponents.

What will the run be about in the coming weeks?

The most effective run is 1 that deals with the problems that citizens face. Today, it is without uncertainty security, both internationally, concerning the war in Ukraine and the turbulence on the Europe-US line, but besides individual security, specified as the threats posed by the influx of illegal migrants. There are surely besides crucial issues related to Polish home budgets, increases in energy prices.

All candidates focus heavy on security. Rafał Trzaskowski presented his advisors in this respect a fewer weeks ago. Will Charles Nawrocki copy this idea?

Experts around Karol Nawrocki are here. These are a fewer 100 people who are on the civilian committee. Karol Nawrocki will mention to them many times soon, as he did even during the programme conference. We're not planning a Rafal Trzaskowski show. I'm certain we'll have a large election convention just before the election. However, due to the suspension of backing for the Law and Justice, we have a hard task.

Using boxing terminology, we're like a boxer who fights 1 hand tied in the back. That is why I join the appeal to our sympathizers for financial support of Karol Nawrocki's campaigns. For all modest thing, we are very grateful. Every, even the humblest support contributes to the triumph of Karol Nawrocki.

The European Parliament has waived your immunity. That's what you said about FiveRand's engagement in the scandal around the National Centre for investigation and Development. In an interview, you spoke about unclean practices of “nogorodka butchers”. Do you keep the words that Przemysław Wipler, who was active with FiveRand, felt affected?

Invariably, I believe that the company that combines lobbying, black PR and political commitment is dangerous for Polish public life. I have no problem with people who feel defamed getting their civilian rights. On the another hand, the application of the criminal procedure in this case with Article 212, which, according to many parties and social organisations, including the author of this proposal, should be eliminated, is an effort to harass. I want to make it clear that this is simply a private indictment that any citizen can make, and the court in this case acts on a notary basis and sends the case on.

Grzegorz Urbanek spoke.