Zbigniew Ziobro – between Budapest and political non-existence
The conversation began with an analysis of the situation of Zbigniew Ziobry, who, after the premiere of the law movie in Poland, remained in Hungary, where he gave an interview and suggested that “the fact came out.” Beata Grabarczyk commented:
“I thought he was more of a skirmish, so he'd come here, crow, scream. No, he prefers to do it from abroad.”Rafał Kalukin noted that Ziobro had not yet decided what to do next:
"If he stays, however, there is any political disqualification. If he wants to hold his position in his camp, he should return and act as a victim – but in Poland.”Marcin Celiński added with a snack:
“It seems to me that this is alternatively a situation in which he jumps on the nearest tree, due to the fact that here flies a hippo.”Possible directions for further escape were besides considered: the Czech Republic, Slovakia and even Belarus – although ironic. It was mentioned that Ziobro could calculate the risks associated with a possible change of power in Hungary.
The President-Prime Minister's Conflict: Promotions and Services
Prime Minister Donald Tusk criticized president Nawrocki for refusing to sign nominations for 136 peculiar Services officers:
“To be president, it is not adequate to win elections. To be Prime Minister, it is not adequate to post posts on X.”The guests agreed it was an unprecedented situation. Celiński noted:
"I think this is an absolutely unprecedented situation. [...] Never before has the president blocked the nomination for lieutenants.”Kalukin added that we are dealing with "the strongest co-habitation ever."
Cenckiewicz and access to classified information
At the heart of the dispute was Sławomir Cenckiewicz, an advisor to the president who did not receive a safety certificate. Marcin Celiński expressed a clear opinion:
“Without a certificate for Cenckiewicz we will not leave the conflict between palaces.”Rafał Kalukin tried to provoke reflection:
“More harm will consequence from blocks like this, than from whether Cenckiewicz will have access.”The gravedigger replied:
"Then our NATO colleagues can halt providing us with information. [...] This is very dangerous.”The investigation concerning the disclosure of classified information was besides mentioned, in which Cenckiewicz was to issue approval to access persons without a certificate to archival defence plans.
Ziobro in the PiS – out of influence
The interviewers agreed that the PiS does not dream of returning Ziobra. Grabarczyk pointed to the vote on his immunity:
“PiS voted against, Coalition voted in favour on October 15 – and it was held in a flash, without a word of brawl.”Kalukin concluded:
"In politics it is that if you are not there, you are not there. [...] Others take your place.”Ziobro, although formally Vice-President of the Law and Justice, is present a “viscer painted”. His environment was absorbed, and his erstwhile associates would gladly take his place.
NATO, safety and precedents
The discussion ended with a reflection on how political conflicts affect national security. Kalukin appealed:
"A certain escalation of the political conflict may have adverse effects on the state and specified matters should be weighed very carefully."Celiński recalled the precedent with Macierewicz, who, despite his doubts, had access to all information as Minister of Defence, only US intervention led to his dismissal from office. Grabarczyk warned that a akin situation with Cenckiewicz could consequence in the isolation of Poland in NATO structures.
Watch the full conversation
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