You want peace, prepare for war?
Damian Duda: We say this: hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst. The war in Ukraine has been going on for 10 years. For example, in the Scandinavian model...
...in 2018, the Swedish government distributed flyers to citizens in the event of Russia's invasion.
The Scandinavian phenomenon is that they don't scare threats, they talk about them. There are even educational centers where the youngest can learn how to pack their own backpack to relieve the burden on their parents.
We should be prepared not only for war but besides for all kinds of crises, disasters, social unrest. While I was inactive working as a spokesperson for the Government safety Center, we had a large blackout due to the harm to the line by strong wind gusts. And abruptly people were amazed there was no electricity for the weekend.
Two days without power, we can't take it?
While we're inactive talking about our households, these 2 days will last. But erstwhile we're dealing with hospitals where people are attached to life support, that's where the problem begins. We don't talk about threats due to the fact that they "pull the wolf out of the woods."
Do we like not to worry besides much?
The mechanics of denial is not good, 1 must be afraid. It is natural to fear war or crisis. On the another hand, this fear should motivate us to act, it should be for us an early informing system, an orange lamp that signals that we request to control to endurance mode.
How unprepared are we for war?
It would not be actual to say that the Polish state is completely defenceless, without mechanisms. We have mechanisms, but most frequently outdated, which request to be adapted to the realities of the full-scale conflict that is taking place in Ukraine. There's a lot to do about it.
What exactly?
We gotta start with an alarm strategy that is obsolete. Ukraine uses push notifications, applications. This strategy almost after the Russian aircraft and entering the airspace Ukraine has already informed circumstantial circuits that the population should take refuge.
In our country, this strategy is slow, sluggish. He can't respond that fast. It's a change.
On a scale of 1 to 10, how prepared are we for war?
I do not want to talk about this due to the fact that there are many aspects that I simply do not know. That's why this assessment would be hurtful, due to the fact that I look at it from a tactical, bottom-up point of view, not strategically.
There is nowhere to hide in Poland. According to the report, the method condition of shelters is 68 percent unsatisfactory. And 65 percent of Poles do not know where their nearest shelter is. Does that surprise you?
No, we've known shelters for a long time as relics of the past. Many elements of crisis management have been inserted into the drawer of the past system. Completely cast out, rejected. No 1 assumed another conflict due to the fact that we live in a planet of peace, we are protected by alliances.
But as it turns out, all assurances, the provisions of global law in the context of the conflict with Russia, simply do not work. We as physicians on the front line are very frequently shot at by the forces of the Russian Federation. I have felt on my own many times that MPKKZ (International humanitarian law of armed conflicts – ed.) does not work.
We woke up and we had to scope for the tools we forgot. And these tools are unprepared.
Whose negligence is that?
This is not just a substance of government negligence. We should all hit each another in the chest. Most of the structures that have been built in fresh years belong to local governments.
The local government would alternatively build a fresh playground than build a shelter. In the opinion not only of the authorities, but besides of the general public, these shelters were unnecessary, and even their construction was considered a waste of money.
There's been a war going on for 10 years. American intelligence informed the Polish government long before Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Why were we not prepared for war in 2022?
Over the years, neglect grew. And over the years, we have been penned to say that alliances will defend us, and a full-scale war with artillery will not explode. 1 drove the other. And it led us into the incorrect message that we inactive have time. But now we know we don't have that time.
Is this the tardiness of politicians or our mentality? Just look at the Baltic countries that are prepared, people know where the shelters are and how to last in them.
Back to square one. You don't build a pigeon erstwhile you're not going to grow pigeons.
But erstwhile you see that a neighbour has a dove, there's a request for pigeons and it's what he earns, possibly it's worth taking a look.
That's the problem. We weren't curious in those pigeons. For example, we received the reactions of the Baltic countries somewhat leniently. We said they were closer to Russia, they had to react. And we know we're on. Besides, we're protected by NATO. any of the Scandinavian countries that were preparing for the war were not in NATO, so in our mentality it was established that they should be preparing.
It seems to us that if we pay taxes, keep an army and police, we are completely exempt from protection, self-defence, as well as our country and state. We forget that the constitutional work to defend the homeland has everyone.
And in 2014, they were prepared for war?
No, not at all. It was a shock to them, and the Ukrainian army was not prepared at all. They managed to keep the territory due to the fact that volunteers who supported the army broke up.
But they learned their lesson. Their army was cleansed, reformed. Despite this brake, which was the corruption process, it was social movement and education, and support, and logistics preparation that made as a full-scale conflict occurred, the majority knew how to behave. This bottom-up support movement was very strong.
How about us?
As of 2014, pro-defense and pro-social organizations have knocked on the Ministry of Defence so that this and another ministries incorporate them into the country's safety strategy to take place at the minute of the conflict.
Ten years they've been trampling around, but they've been heard lately?
They weren't heard. There was a gathering at the Ministry of abroad Affairs, but with social organizations. Paramilitary, pro-defensive organizations have advice on the issue of defence, which someway drains them. It is possible to sign with the army on a partnership basis, but there are inactive no rules, in case of war. If specified a man from a paramilitary or pro-defensive environment went out in uniform without papers on the street during an armed conflict, he would be considered a diversion. So far, there are no laws on what a pro-defense organization is.
If it hasn't been worked out, there's no way these pro-defensive organizations could be put into a system.
I am very pleased that the Ministry of abroad Affairs wants to scope for social organisations that want to enter the civilian protection system. The assurances and declarations are that if the organisation decides, it will be officially included in the civilian protection structure with the right to usage markings, which would be something the Scandinavians have known for a long time.
In the Finnish model, territorial defence is composed of clusters: associations, organizations that operate independently during peace, and for wartime they supply their services. Motorcycle clubs are couriers. We have a civilian service of radio operators who will be comms supporting the army.
What else was in the gathering with Minister Kierwinski?
From the Ministry of the Ministry of abroad Affairs there was a declaration that before they created any legislation, they would like to consult with us – medicalians operating in Ukraine. Mainly so that the laws are not devoid of reality. Yesterday we said that global law of armed conflict does not defend medics.
The fresh government needed a 100 days to tackle the civilian Protection Act. Is that slow?
Three months to change managers who have never seen a problem before – that's a good result.
The erstwhile government assured that we were safe in Poland. Even erstwhile a rocket fell in the Wire, they said we had multi-layered air protection.
I don't want to talk about it. I was a spokesperson for the Government safety Center at the time, and I'm inactive bound by a business secret. But the fact is that even from the point of view of the average citizen, we have learned about many threats powerfully after the fact.
So the point was to make illusions of a safe country, and now we wake up with our hand in a potty?
A year ago, I was a service officer active in the Territorial defence Army. And for the remainder of my life, I will effort to be apolitical. But I will not accept this as a citizen and a socialist – no substance which political option will regulation – to keep citizens unaware, not to inform about threats and not to show where the tools are to deal with these threats.
Young people have no information on how to deal with threats in times of crisis or war. The education process does not presume that. And there are quite a few another threats, the planet is awake. We have cybersecurity, misinformation, terrorist activities. That's what schools don't say. There have been attempts to force the Ministry of Education from state institutions and social organizations to change the curriculum for safety education. No success.
Is that why you left RCB?
It was a time erstwhile I was more frequent in Ukraine than in the country. It was a time erstwhile the war was brutalized and I had to choose between working on the front and working in the country.
Did working on the front make more sense?
It gave tangible results. I've seen people saved. I've seen what my hands can do. I didn't bounce off an authoritative device above RCB. The RCB's function at that time by the resorts was imported...
...to text with a weather warning?
Yeah, to the National Alert Center. Now the Ministry of the Ministry of the Interior has declared that the function of the RCB will be strengthened. I hope so.
Putin is said to request 3 years to prepare for the NATO war. How much time do we have? Is it years or months?
That's a very hard question. We are talking not only about preparing armies, shelters, services, but besides about shifting the economy to production tracks during the war. We're talking about preparing reserves that we don't have. We were out of artillery, which now became the subject of lamentation. And there are no subsidies from the European Union. We forgot that we should safe our own business. We should get ready.
Where do I start?
Certainly from the effective, modern Emergency Management Act. We request to start reasoning of the armed conflict as a full conflict. We request to get out of the comfort zone.
As shortly as the Russians see any military infrastructure, medical infrastructure, they equal it to the ground. Ukrainian Ammia went completely underground. Ukrainians and Russians enter a gap in the ground and sit in an trench for six months, 2 years. Go to the military unit and tell the soldiers they're not going to the ground for heated tents, containers, they'll be in trenches for 2 weeks. I warrant you 90 percent of the soldiers will drop L4. Many of this methodology, the work in the multi-scale war is not known here.
Next: ask which Polish infirmary is prepared in case of war to go down to the basement and execute operations there. I'm beautiful certain 90 percent of hospitals didn't presume that option at all.
How was Ukraine?
Start the movie "120 days in Mariupol" and see how hospitals function underground. Now is the time to deal with this in Poland. I hope the denial mechanics does not function.
We sometimes talk to Russian prisoners of war who are being helped there in the East. They are absolutely convinced that they are fighting NATO. And the question is, if they conquer Ukraine and approach NATO, will they halt there? Let it be a rhetorical question. Let everyone answer to them according to their logic.
How do you prepare people for war without causing panic?
This should be the domain of institutions, local governments, which are liable for the safety of citizens. It should not be that citizens themselves gotta spend money to scope to this knowledge.
At this point, we have a problem with shelters and shelters. due to the fact that you gotta separate it. There are plenty of places that, as far as possible, can supply us with shelter. Even in our apartment, we have places little and more secure.
Are the ones far from the windows more safe?
Yeah. We are not just talking about shrapnel, but besides pressure, many conditions. It is besides crucial to safe the gas system. Even if we don't have a real shelter on the block, we have basements, flat cells. In Bachmut, we spent a period in the basements under the blocks.
What about the underground garage? How do you measure whether he is safe?
Here, we request experts, people who would measure and certify specified a public utility site, allowing them as shelter.
An application was created in Lviv at the beginning of the full-scale war, which shows where the nearest shelter is. And we're not just talking about shelters, we're talking about basements, places checked and allowed as shelters. Something like that in our reality would be a large solution.
Should we get packed backpacks?
Evacuation backpacks, where we have collected the most crucial things and documents, should always be at hand. We've got to have the paperwork ready, the valuables, the cash. If we don't take this, we're at the mercy of others erstwhile we leave home. The point is to be prepared for the circumstances of all incident. due to the fact that our home from a fortress, a safe place, could turn into our prison or our tomb. The point is to survive.
What should I put in my backpacks?
We should get the papers, but at least 24 hours or 2 to eat, drink, clothes, sleeping bag, blanket. And above all, a flashlight, a battery radio, or a dynamome that will let us to catch messages. The hardest thing will be to disrupt them in a situation of armed conflict.
What else should we remember?
We can't sleep a while. The minute we decision from point A, we should know where point B is. And have any options to decision to point B. The road from Kiev to Warsaw is about 10 hours. People from the blocked Kiev got to Warsaw sometimes in 4 days, part of the episodes passed on foot.
We must be prepared that the safe cities we are in now will become a trap from which it will be hard to get out.
We were observing a civilian population in Bachmut who refused to evacuate the city. They assumed they had nowhere to go. These people died in the streets, in their apartments. This town was their grave. They frequently wanted to leave, but it was besides late. any of them most likely survived in the basement, waiting for Russian troops.
The question is what happened after they met them. There will be a minute erstwhile we gotta leave our safe places, our apartments, our homes. And look for safer ones.
It is said that Poles or Estonians are looking for apartments in Spain, Portugal. Is that a good strategy?
I do not know if the war will scope the farthest corners of Europe. If everyone thinks about escaping, who will defend this country? If the medical household gets out of the country, there won't be anyone else to treat. Each should measure whether and for how long he should stay in Poland.
A country, a country – it is us, not just a territory defined by borders. Each of us should estimation where this place is.
We talk like this war is about to start. Should the reader take it from our conversation?
Let's hope for the best, be prepared for the worst. I don't want to scare anyone, but let's be prepared. "All hands on deck". Each of us should be an component of defence and protection.
But you have the most crucial task of protecting us?
Yes, but you're us. Institutions should give citizens a place in a strategy where they will be able to effectively contribute to strengthening defence and protection.
You're on the front line, heroically saving Ukrainian soldiers. How's their morale in the 3rd year of war?
Morale's dropping. People are tired, exploited. any of them have been fighting for 2 years. any fought earlier, starting with the start of the 2014 war. Even 45-50-year-olds are hard to live in trenches, undernourished. Old diseases that make your body wear out even more.
The deficiency of weapons, ammunition is besides noticeable. Under these conditions, it's harder to fight, the fact is that aid from the West came besides late. Even if the West now supports Ukraine, the chances of effectively displacing the Russians will be much little than could have been the case at a time erstwhile the aid of the West was determined and earlier.
How long are Ukrainians able to fight at specified a level of fatigue, exhaustion without support blocked by an American congress?
Ukraine runs out of people. And shortly there will be no 1 to defend her.
Poland is next?
Yeah, geographically speaking.
Gozman thinks Putin needs at least 3 years to build a atomic possible and he won't stop. Now we are talking about Baltic countries, next will be Poland?
I'm inactive looking from a tactical standpoint. After all, we observe the rhetoric of scaring, pointing out the upcoming punishment from the Moscow government towards Poland. We shouldn't ignore it. We should consider this option.
To the front, to the trenches is simply a large politician?
He's off the hook. All that matters in the trenches is to survive, make it to the next day. It's all about having dinner at the same place you had breakfast.
Is there a belief in Ukraine's victory, or is it stopping Russia?
It's very different. Each of these opinions is under the denominator – we have no another choice.
If individual doesn't believe in victory, they know we can't keep the soldiers in the right place, we'll have more of them, Irpienia.
What is the pace of war: Russian successes, presidential elections in the United States?
Everything depends on what decision the Kremlin will make, what strength and capabilities the Kremlin will gotta start this war. Western policy at this point – in my opinion – is not a vector. The Russians just don't care about her.
Are you afraid of that? Have you settled with death, suffering, fear?
Our problem is that we're starting to fear that we're not afraid anymore. We frequently enter routine. I tell everyone fear is good. If you're scared, it means you care about something else.
Damian Duda – combat field medic, erstwhile chief and press spokesperson of the Department of Information Policy of the Government safety Center. Since the beginning of the war in Ukraine has been on the first front. Awarded by president Volodymir Zelenski with a third-class award for merit.
