László Toroczko, Hungarian parliamentarian and leader of the national-conservative organization Mi Hazánk Mozgalom are talking to Adam Laughter and Przemysław Piasta.
We are very pleased and it is simply a large honor for us to meet and talk with you. We would ask you to present your political way in a fewer words.
– My political career began a comparatively long time ago, due to the fact that 25 years ago. I was inactive very young then. First was the Hungarian Justice and Life organization then Jobbik. In 2018 there was a divided in Jobbik. The earlier national organization and we formed a fresh organization Mi Hazánk Mozgalom (The Movement of Our Homeland), of which I am the founder and chairman. In 2022, with almost 6% support, we competed in the first elections to parliament. Since then, we have been in Parliament and our organization has been getting stronger. We are now the second strongest organization on the opposition side and the 3rd strongest group in Hungary, but we have quite a few support for young voters, so I think we have many opportunities to make further in the future.
There has been a war in Ukraine for a year. Hungary stands by this conflict. Why specified a policy?
– We want peace. And we believe that this (war in Ukraine – ed.) is the first collision of the powers of America and Russia, with which we Hungarians have nothing in common. We can only see that, as a consequence of this conflict, Europe is beginning to collapse, that Europe is destroying itself, as has already happened in the 20th century. That America is strengthening at the expense of Europe.
Plus there is another very crucial thing from the point of view of Hungary, namely the situation of Hungarians in Zakarpacie. The Kiev regime, which now governs Ukraine, for many, many years, and so even before the outbreak of the war, attacked the Zakarpackian Hungarians. There have been terrorist attacks, specified as KMKSZ, the cultural association of the Hungarian number in Ungvár, and anti-Hungarian demonstrations and demonstrations in Beregsz, where the Hungarian flag has been removed from the Town Hall and the usage of Hungarian language among the local community has been restricted. Naturally, we did not like the fact that the Kiev government has long run anti-Hungarian policy.
There was a loud echo in Poland about the demolition of the Hungarian symbol - Turul at Mukacz Castle. What is the genesis of anti-Hungarian politics in Ukraine?
– For many, many years, these anti-Hungarian attacks have been on the agenda. There were immense posters all over Zakarpacie, on which Hungarians were harassed and humiliated. It has now come to the conclusion that Hungarian subtitles are being removed and these are not isolated incidents, due to the fact that Hungarians are being attacked and provoked all the time, as well as attacking and threatening Hungarian politicians and public individuals. There is besides a website where there are hostile Ukrainians. We know that terrorist acts have besides been committed outside Ukraine – specified as the assassination of Daria Dugina in Moscow, for example – regardless of whether a individual agreed with the principles of the Russians, or by another nationalities. It is not whether individual agrees with them, but that violence, threats and terrorism are unacceptable, regardless of where they come from.
I can safely say that KMKSZ Brenzovics László, for example, appeared in Budapest in March 2021 as a exile due to the fact that he was forced to flee his own homeland, where he was born, where his household lives. The president of the Hungarian organization lives in Budapest with exile position due to the fact that he is persecuted in Ukraine. So we are dealing with the systematic persecution of Hungarians."
Let's decision on to the United States. We are observing an American policy leading to the establishment of hegemony over the world. In particular, we are curious in the policy which the US conducts towards countries specified as Poland or Hungary. We would like to ask your opinion on this. as far as the conflict in Ukraine is concerned, but besides the US's actions towards your country. I am referring primarily to the action of the US Ambassador to Hungary David Pressman, who is simply a declared homosexual (he has a alleged husband), as well as a fresh visit to Hungary Samantha Power. Power, who met with the opposition announced on Twitter that her visit was aimed at promoting LGBT rights and promoting human rights. All of this happened in apparent opposition from the Hungarian government and the value that this government and most of the Hungarian people believe in. What is your opinion of this kind of policy?
– What America is doing across Europe is clearly interfering with national policies. It acts like a colonial power. The most problematic issue is the USAID [US global improvement Agency] and the visit of its president Samantha Power, because, as we know, this organization is not independent of the US government. In fact, it carried out the alleged strategy change and in 1999 it was present here in Hungary, erstwhile it was considered that our country was satisfactorily in the sphere of American influence. Now that it is considered that we are not complying with the US directives sufficiently, this organisation is returning to Hungary and creating media here that, of course, are not independent of the USAID, which means that they interfere, for example, in elections or in elections, which I consider to be a very serious threat to our sovereignty. American values and political goals are now bidirectional. Firstly, the US is an economical power, and secondly, an ideological dictatorship. At the centre of this dictatorship we have the strongest LGBTQ lobby today, and we are not just talking about homosexuality, due to the fact that this is not just about this, but about destroying old conventional values and destroying household institutions. Of course you gotta fight it, you can't accept it. On the 1 hand, we cannot let ourselves to renounce our sovereignty, our freedom. We didn't fight the communists, the russian Union, to become an American colony now. due to the fact that we fought for the sovereignty of European states and nations. That is why we are talking about this problem and we see these values as American, not European, and we would like to return to these conventional European values.
If only the declarations of the Polish government were taken into account, it is highly conservative. But this government acts like a blind man who does not want to see that the American ambassador in Warsaw, Mr.Brzeziński, constantly meets with the opposition and does things akin to those that Mr.Pressman does in Hungary, specified as being active in the promotion of LGBT. However, the Polish government does not want to announcement this. I am talking about this due to the fact that we are popular with the proverb “The Pole of Hungary, 2 nephews”. Given the fact that Poland's policy has a reverse vector than Hungary's policy, how do you see the future of our relations? Of course, I am not reasoning about relations between average people, but about political relations. Especially since we see the Visegrad Group dying today. How do you, as a Hungarian politician, see that what Poland is presently doing in conflict with the conduct of Hungary, see the future of political relations between Hungary and Poland? Especially as the Polish opposition is very much like Hungarian opposition.
– I consider Hungarian-Polish relations to be highly important. During the past decade, I participated in the independency Marches in Warsaw many times, almost all year. I spoke there twice, and I would like to see the Hungarian relations as they were in the past and in the last 10 years, so that the war in Ukraine would not spoil them.
We must realise that it was Ukraine, not Poland, that was attacked. The position of Hungary would, of course, be completely different if this attack had affected Poland. But we're talking about Ukraine here. In Ukraine, the situation is different, there are also political views and as I said, this is the American – Russian conflict.
In addition, there were 6-8 million citizens surviving in Ukraine at the time of the outbreak of the war, while there is no multimillion Russian population in Poland, which is why Russia would not like to attack Poland, but, as I said, the Hungarian position would be completely different if Poland – with which we are friends – was attacked.
We with Ukraine had a completely different relation long before the war broke out. I would very much like this war to end as shortly as possible, so I would very much like peace and a peace agreement.
We Hungarians made a very large sacrifice in the 20th century in the name of planet peace. After all, the largest territorial losses after the First planet War afraid Hungary, which as part of the then Austro-Hungarian monarchy are not liable for this war. We had disproportionate consequences. Yet we Hungarians would be forced to accept the fact that Ukraine will not quit 1 centimeter of its territory in the name of peace in Europe and in the name of avoiding planet war.
It would be very hard for us to accept, just as it is hard to understand, that our Polish friends so easy pushed aside what happened in Volyn during the Second planet War, erstwhile tens of thousands, possibly even hundreds of thousands of innocent Poles – just due to the fact that they were Poles – were brutally murdered by the same Ukrainian nationalists who are presently stalking Hungarians in Ukraine.
We are incapable to realize the position of the Polish government on genocide in Volyn. They can be described as unbelievable. Forgetting the extermination of about 150 1000 Poles, and closing eyes to commemorate the murderers and people who stood with them in Ukraine must be defined. These commemorations in Ukraine are counted in thousands. Monuments, street names and so on... The Polish government and opposition say with 1 voice that it does not matter. It's something beyond human knowing of this problem... We consider Hungary's policy to be the best policy that an independent state, however, can carry out. The last question I would like to ask you: the past of our nations and our countries is highly complicated. present we request to look for a way of approaching past that will not origin irritation between nations, but besides within nations. Unfortunately, in contemporary Poland, any Poles hatred others. To a large extent, it is simply a substance of presenting past by the authorities in our country. Yesterday we walked around Budapest and found a monument in perfect condition – commemoration of the Red Army, and next to it a more modest monument of George Bush. At the time, I thought that in Hungary, you found a way to show a hard communicative to your own people, and that does not give emergence to quarrels or irritations. Of course, I look at it as a guest. Am I right to see it that way?
– Hungary and Poland, as well as another Visegrad Group countries, are located in the epicentre both geographically here in Central Europe and for historical reasons – at the interface between the East, the West and the North, and I think it is crucial that Poles do not hatred each other, just as Hungarians do not hatred another Hungarians.
Today in 2023 in Hungary, we no longer have specified a heated political situation, but there are besides pro-liberal militias. They are a minority, but they are the leaders in most of Budapest. They are trying to divide their own nation and I believe that they are not allowed to do so, as they are not allowed to share Poles in the interests of the planet powers of America or Russia. Firstly, we must bear in head our own national interest and it would be good if the countries of our region could actually unite.
The thought of the Mediterranean was not bad, unless, of course, we would have become an American colony, as we utilized to be a russian colony in the communist bloc. Unfortunately, the problem is that at the minute the governments of Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and the governments of another European countries are undoubtedly directing us towards the collapse of Europe and to become a state of America. We can't accept that. We must take care of our own people.
I completely agree with your view about the Sea. Unfortunately, the thought of the Mediterranean is based on strong rusophobic prejudices and as specified is the way to nowhere. Thank you very much for the chance to have an highly interesting conversation.
– Thank you very much. It is an honor to meet you here in the Budapest Parliament.
Think Poland, No. 23-24 (4-11.06.2023)
