Marta Kurzyńska, Interia: Are you going to Budapest to visit your colleagues?
Michał Wójcik, Law and Justice: - Who do you mean?
Zbigniew Ziobro and Marcin Romanowski aren't your friends?
– I do not know where Mr Zbigniew Ziobro is, Mr Marcin Romanowski is in Hungary, but I do not know where. I'm not going to see him right now.
Last time you spoke to Minister Ziobra, he was in Hungary. Not anymore?
– I don't know where he is. All I can say is that I have large respect for Hungarians. I like Hungary very much, since I was a kid, and I've been there a lot, including in this respect, and you've come to the right place.
I see you're trying to make the case absurd. Do you respect Viktor Orban, too? You don't head his approach to the war in Ukraine?
– 1 must remember about historical events, hard sometimes in Hungarian-Ukrainian relations, how Hungary has energy sources. Somehow, the European Union does not want to aid Hungary in this regard. Of course, I don't agree with all the things, but I respect Viktor Orban very much and consider him a distinguished statesman.
State husband? Why?
– I believe that he is simply a man who first defends values that are regularly destroyed in the European Union by politicians representing left-wing ideology. He's a man who's been Prime Minister for a long time, so people want a leader like that. This is the best temper reviewer in the country.
But don't you think what's happening in Ukraine right now should oblige a statesman to side with the victim alternatively than an aggressor?
– We have a different assessment of the situation, that's obvious. However, it is besides hard not to announcement that Budapest was the place of Donald Trump's gathering with Putin. Hungarian diplomacy is not at a bad level, rather, erstwhile it comes to Polish diplomacy, I would have quite a few attention. Unfortunately, the current power camp does not digest Orban, it does not digest Hungarians.
But for Zbigniew Ziobry Viktor Orban is not severe.
– Zbigniew Ziobro said he was going to Hungary 2 weeks ago. At the end of the week, he received an invitation call from Mr. Viktor Orban. This gathering lasted many hours and was fruitful. That's why his stay in Hungary extended.
The gathering with Viktor Orban ended a long time ago, and Zbigniew Ziobry, if he wasn't there.
– I don't know where Zbigniew Ziobro is. Everyone asks me that, but I don't gotta know that.
We know you're in good contact with Mr. Zbigniew Ziobro, hence the questions. You even late admitted that you were talking.
– It's actual we spoke on the phone, but I didn't ask him if he would or not.
Zbigniew Ziobra is looking for law enforcement, and you didn't ask?
– It's his decision what he'll do. Poles request to know that the 2 years that have passed were the time of building a regime, a state where there is no functioning Constitutional Court, a prosecutor due to the fact that there is no legal national prosecutor, there are no efficient courts. No citizen can feel assured in Poland today. Just look at the final ruling of the Poznań Court of Appeal. The killer who killed 3 people whose judgement is being lifted due to the fact that the justice who issued it is simply a neojudge. It shook the full public.
But are the words about the government not besides strong?
– The words about the government are not strong due to the fact that the government is simply a structure where civilian liberties are restricted. I believe that this is the case in Poland today.
What freedoms are restricted?
– What is an component of freedom is that there is simply a constitutional order. The Constitutional Court is on the watch. It is what it is. It's the only case in the planet that judges have been stripped of their salaries.
Would you advise Zbigniew Ziobrze to return to the country or to stay in Hungary?
– I'm not advising the Minister. He knows best what to do with things like this. Especially due to the fact that he's a individual who fights a very severe illness.
The illness does not relieve responsibility.
– It looks bad. The power camp wants to arrest him, humiliate him, destruct him as a human being. They just hatred him. It's all due to revenge. He's number 1 on the arrest and arrest list. This government wants to see him in handcuffs, behind bars, to show their fanatics this kind of picture, a image that will satisfy chaotic desires.
But if he is innocent, then maybe, quoting the classics – there is nothing to be afraid of?
– And if I told the editor I could get you arrested as lawyer General and defend yourself as innocent as you are. It's not precisely fair to make a case.
There are 26 charges on the Ziobrze Brigand.
– We presented a movie in which erstwhile Minister of Justice Krzysztof Kwiatkowski said that there was no violation of the law on the Justice Fund. This is shocking to all the communicative that he built the power camp that it was all illegal.
But the president of the Law and Justices himself had doubts if he wrote a letter to Zbigniew Ziobra?
– This letter was written in conditional form, that is, if it is actual that the law is broken. The president felt that there was no broken law and a fewer days ago, at a press conference he referred to the full case, informing that what was happening present was a criminal violation of the law.
Aren't you afraid this case will affect the ratings of the full party?
– I'm not afraid. The Justice Fund is simply a good record. They've been trying for 3 years to show that there have been irregularities. They can't prove it.
Aren't you burdened with the CPK case, Robert Telus? A fresh thread appeared with Dawton tubes.
– I don't know that line, it's hard to say. I know 1 thing, Donald Tusk has cornered himself. This is not a PiS scandal, this is simply a civilian Coalition.
It was your government, not the KOs that sold the lot.
– If the Law and Justice were to break the law, he did bad things, why for 2 years they did not lift a finger on the matter. Knowing that something like this happened. Why didn't the D.A.'s office, even though the announcement was filed, analyse until the day the press published the article? Why don't they say anything about financing Rafał Trzaskowski's campaign? Why don't they say anything about Campus Poland funding? It casts a shadow of a very strong suspicion that they did not want to contact the subject for any reason.
Would you give the Confederates to the possible future government of the Ministry of Justice? It's expected to be their condition.
– First win, then program, and at the very end of personia. It's besides early to talk about personalities and the coalition. I only appeal to the full right hand so that she can decently diagnose who the real opponent is and not effort to bite. I am talking about those who intentionally for their political ambitions, implementation, for percent points are trying to bite the Law and Justice. The opponent is clear. This is Donald Tusk and the power camp. We're hoping to win the election ourselves. We'll do everything we can to make this happen, and if we request to build a coalition, we'll just build it.
Two years ago, you failed. And so far you're biting each another with your most likely coalition.
– Unfortunate things happen. It's true. I can't realize why. The Confederacy together with the PiS supported Karol Nawrocki and that is simply a fact. This is why Karol Nawrocki is the president of Poland today. If there was individual else at the Presidential Palace, we most likely wouldn't be talking anymore, due to the fact that the opposition would be completely destroyed and civilian liberties would be taken away. present we are talking about parliamentary elections, but it is besides early to talk about coalitions. present the polls are clear. Poles do not want this government. The full past of the Justice Fund, the CPK, has a very clear context. It's just that power can't handle government. This is an effort to cover up failure.
The civilian Coalition has better polls than you.
– If the Citizens' Coalition grows, that means it consumes the remaining coalitions. delight note the support Poland has 2050, the support the people have. They will cling to the claws of this power.
You besides have been absorbed by the Law and Justice, literally.
– It was our informed decision that under the conditions in which we operate, better, more effective for the Polish right is that we should act within the framework of the Law and Justice. That way we can fight for the full stakes. We ruled respective times without a coalition. On the another hand, if there is simply a request to build a coalition, I can bet Donald Tuski that we will rule, not him.
He's number 1 on the arrest and arrest list. This government wants to see him in handcuffs, behind bars, to show their fanatics this kind of picture, a image that will satisfy chaotic desires.
Donald Tusk says tiny amounts are assumed to win the KO. What are you talking about?
– I don't bet on money.
What would you bet on?
– I'll bet the prime minister a good wine he'll lose that bet. Even more, I can say that this company that's in charge present will be accounted for. Although I don't want to just talk about accounts, due to the fact that that's the worst thing you can do. We just gotta reconcile the nation.
To reconcile the nation by reckoning?
– The settlements will be, but not guided by revenge.
So the ruling have nothing to fear?
– They have much to fear due to the fact that they have been breaking the law for 2 years in a way that is unusual. Temida has an armband, a weight and a sword. On the another hand, I have the impression that those who account present do it without a band, without any weight, only with a sword to kill the opposition. You gotta remember that. Especially since no 1 has a monopoly on the authorities. Never.
Marta Kurzyńska spoke
"Politic WF": Ziobro stays in Hungary for nowINTERIA.PL
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