Democracy is never given forever. It's us citizens who have the influence. due to the fact that as Henry Wujec said, “It is never that we have no influence. Even erstwhile I feel helpless or helpless, it never justifies me not doing anything.” About the birth of activist Anna Maruszko asks Robert Hojad, founder and president of the Foundation legislature of the Democratic Movements (KORD), organizer of the task “Tour de Constitution PL”, creator and organizer of “March of Silence”44”.
Films from „Tour de Constitution PL“ in social media: You frequently behind the wheel of the Tour de Bus, alongside the judges of Igor Tuley, Waldemar Żurek, the patron of King Dagmar Siadlak... Everyone in T-shirt with the inscription “Tour de Constitution PL”, in jeans, in sneakers... You look happy. Am I right?
We have a common goal. You can't not be smiling if what you're doing makes deep sense to everyone who wants to be a part of it. This is where you just want to live! We're perfectly natural. We don't gotta and don't want to make another reality.
I came to talk about the constitution, but I was intrigued by your tattoo.
I'm not saying it's a phoenix from the ashes, but something like that. It shows a man who comes out of a kind of gehenna, from a pit. But you can't say he won yet. Its part is all the time in human hell, in the hell of life.
Is he inactive in pain?
Not anymore. This painting reminds me of protecting myself, not going back to where I utilized to be. Here you can see a serpent that binds a chain and a demon's hand, akin to the last cover of the NNO on the sin of uncleanness. The fight of good and evil continues.
One must learn to read what is going on around him and draw conclusions. I believe that you can always find asylum in your life, even erstwhile you think you're in the darkest alley. You don't gotta drown in the end.
Was there a threat of drowning in your case?
I've got stories in my book. I want to believe I didn't hurt anyone, but I besides brushed up on the paragraphs that could have led me to prison. I was raised in Grochów, where there was a subculture of gymnasts, a prison subculture. It was besides a time of hippies, punks, although they were not liked in Prague. Git people are gangsters of the time. I turned around and among people who took drugs, alleged compote injected into a vein. erstwhile I was a twelve years old, I was on a gigant with a man who died at the age of thirty. I didn't do it myself.
That kind of interior discipline?
Nope. It was a fear that I would swim and fall like the others. There's nothing to brag about, that was the reality around me: suicide, murder, another physical violence. I'm going to exaggerate if I say it was everyday, but still. Narcotics were seen as weak, unorthodox, so that most likely stopped me. Care for the image. There are inactive things I can't tell you.
The most crucial breakthrough in your life? Moving from the dark to the bright side?
You want to know besides much. (Laughter)
Roughly.
That was beautiful recent. In 2015. I was never curious in politics, but it was related to the situation in Poland.
"Good change" frightened you?
In the planet I grew up in, there were iron rules. You didn't fight a guy who went with a woman, even if he wasn't on his turf. I myself got beat up erstwhile I found myself in the incorrect place, not at that time. It may seem unusual today, but we respected it. You had to follow the rules and be prepared for different situations. The value was honor. Even the thief, in his own way, had him.
What pisses me off the most in my current power is lying, manipulating people, being smart. You don't usage people who are weaker, vulnerable. You aid these people. You don't rob a place you live. The people who now run the country are without honor. They're robbing their own house. They do things they would never be spared.
Was that the trigger?
I was born a rebellion and a request to react. Strengthened by strong experiences and changes in individual life. I got my head fresh, I started to respect life. Knowing that I was very fortunate gave me the drive.
How was this request to respond?
I began to participate in protests, to support those who organized something, including CODEs, although I never belonged to it. I didn't belong to any civil, social, political organization. And I stick to that. It's just that if I'm active in something, I want to control it. I couldn't stand anyone trying to usage me or trick me.
You're an organization yourself.
But I take full work for her. As a funder, CEO, founder. I don't usage people. I work hard. I can safely say that I am setting an example for others.
How did the civilian legislature of the Democratic Movements (KORD) be established?
It was born spontaneously. erstwhile in 2017 the Committee for Democracy Defence (KOD) found itself in a major crisis – I do not get into the origin – many people turned around and left. Occupation, disappointment, uncertainty. The question was: What next? The people I met on the streets during the demonstration knew I was active, though in the shadows,And that I'm a man who doesn't break.
I rented a tiny area at Marszałkowska. possibly 20 people came. That was 5 years ago in October. On the day erstwhile the demonstration act set itself on fire in protest against the policy of the Law and Justice, against politically-inspired discrimination in Polish social life, Piotr Szczęsny did.
I remember this due to the fact that we were finishing the gathering and the telephone traffic started. individual said a man set himself on fire under the Palace of Culture.
It was a gathering of average citizens from the street. I proposed we meet in a larger circle. I threw my password in Poland. Another gathering took place in a shelter close the Sejm. 80 people have already happened. We talked about the situation, what we could create, what we needed. My function was kind of leadership, but I made it clear that I didn't want to take anything from anyone. “Be where you are”. People started making tiny local groups. respective or even respective of them were created in Warsaw with time. Names don't substance much. What matters is that they wanted to proceed to act. “Keep the logo you have developed. Let us talk.” We met again after 2 weeks, in a 100 and 30 people. "No request to wait, we are organizing the first national CORD". He was in Łódź. The full communicative is written on our website. And we talked about the function of politicians.
Here are 2 words of privacy. It's been different, but in challenging, hard situations, I can always number on the aid of my partner Jola. If it wasn't for her support in quite a few crucial things, it'd just be hard for me, and I'd hang quite a few plans on a proverbial stake on a sacred stake never. For this support and angelic patience I am grateful to her.
What is your attitude towards politicians?
I'm... strict with them. To everyone, no substance where on the political stage. I would like to lead to solutions that would aid to accurately account for them.
The abuse, the scandal?
From what they do during their word of office, not just before the election. To show them how they get active in a public forum. How they perceive to the citizens.
Since 2015, the president of Poland has not utilized the word “citizens” but “nation”.
Because it's power that governs fascist principles. Reading about the past of German nationalism before planet War II, the past of Hitler's coming to power, 1 cannot defy analogy with what the Law and Justices do today. The fascist is not only the 1 who wore the SS uniform and murdered Poles in Pawiak. any people don't realize that the same fascism is being built in Italy, France, that Trump's policy was a form of fascism...
Our cavalry of young people – ONR or Youth of All Poland – has no thought what he is doing either. possibly the leaders are aware, even though I don't know if it's the end. These are boys who have frequently been left to themselves, request a hug, request a subculture to take care of them. I know it. You get caught up in this environment and you don't announcement how it goes down. He will do anything for his – say – family. Then he'll be accounted for. The deeper he goes, the more he gets. And he's having a hard time getting out of it. And these slogans: nation, Polishness, patriotism? It's a secondary matter.
What is patriotism to you?
It's respect for man and actual history. Care for what surrounds me in my country. Openness to another people. respect and respect again. Paying taxes and not throwing garbage on the street plus a 1000 another insignificant things. I consider myself a patriot. I'm doing what I do best for my country. I am the creator of the March of Silence’ 44, which has been walking through Warsaw streets for six years on August 1. Wanda Traczyk-Stawska took the honorary patronage over the march. I gained her trust, and a feeling that I'm arrogant of. Not due to the fact that I flattered her, but due to my work.
Wanda Traczyk-Stawska most likely wouldn't fall for flattery. (Laughter)
Mrs Anna Przedfullska-Trzeciakowska too. If these ladies say that what I do is very crucial to Poland, and they thank me very much for it, they want me to keep doing it, I feel that I can say that I am a patriot.
The current power has narrowed it down and has taken over the concept. To the point that in many Poles the word “patriotism” is averse. They destruct them from their dictionary.
In a sense, we even donated a white-red flag. I've done it myself erstwhile with 1 move, or alternatively with apostasy. On the another hand, life proved to me that everything was for something. Well, seeing what the Law and Justice do – as it takes over national emblems – and they are now the most visible in public space, I felt that I did not want to contribute to it. I could not distance myself erstwhile I saw the Polish flag in the lapels of people who lie. I didn't want to be identified with that yarmark, with that presence. And 1 year, I didn't put the flag on August 1st. Then my neighbor, the Warsaw Uprising, a man of extraordinary integrity and modesty, asks me: “Mr Robert, can I ask you something? Why didn’t you put up the flags?“. I'm a fossil. I apologized to him.
There was besides a minute erstwhile I even thought that I would leave Poland for 2 weeks at the time, due to the fact that I cannot look at this show. But there came a minute of reflection, and I thought, "Wait, Hojda, why should you get out?" This is your town.
Shortly after that, there was a March of Silence’44.
Warsaw is simply a holy city to me. Walking through its streets, I remember that underneath me are the remains of insurgents, inhabitants of Warsaw from the time of the occupation.
The roar: “God, Honor, Homeland”. People who come to Rondo Dmowski mostly do not know that there are also places and another ways to celebrate this anniversary. They defend themselves: “As it is, we give any to the insurgents.” But how? Where's it going? This is the usage of past for peculiar purposes.
I decided to do something that is in line with Mrs Wanda Traczyk-Stawska's thinking, and she emphasizes that the heroes of the Warsaw Uprising were not insurgents themselves, but besides civilians. I had to understand.
Why the Silence March?
I knew it must be a time of silence, focus and reflection. We remember the past of the tragic event – the detonation of the “tank-trap” on Kiliński Street, where respective 100 people died – and insurgents, and civilians. The detonation was powerful.
We presume that respect belongs to everyone. The uprising was besides fought by Jews, homosexuals, dark jazzman August A. Brown, whose monument we have here next door, in Wiecha Passage.
We have an excuse to talk about the unifying narrative, as you call it. It must be hard to activate if what you do as a civic activist has grown out of opposition against 1 political force.
That's right, we're just not gonna get very far with the opposition being shouted out loud in the street. The street is governed by its laws. There are moments erstwhile aggression cannot be avoided. I understand. Only it won't build anything permanent. Fascism, communism is built on fear, ignorance. People aren't expected to know, and they're expected to be scared, the chief sees a rock, not look elsewhere. The intelligent man is simply a threat. The Germans destroyed Polish intelligence. Let's see what's going on today. Power builds its museums and monuments, emasculating frequently actual history. The education of children and young people is directed by people without a modern view of the planet around us. Darkland. I'm not afraid to talk out, even if I were to stand trial for it.
You have lawyers friends now. I'm certain they'd be able to aid if they needed me. Joke, joke.
Professor Roman Kuźniar is my guru on Fascism and Authoritarianism. There was a time erstwhile we talked about this. He has no illusions either.
But back to the unifying narrative.
If fascism is easy, due to the fact that it is based on imposing and violence, destroying culture, it will be much harder to do here, due to the fact that you gotta leave space for everyone. We're expected to be free to make decisions.
Of course, at first I was thought to be creating the CORD to take over people from another organizations. And I always want to build an understanding. KORD Congresses had already held 5 times, 1 that was notabene to have an global dimension, was cancelled due to a pandemic.
There were groups that acted against government policy, while working for civilian society, pro-European, open, tolerant or more acceptable, democratic.
People talked to each other, exchanged contacts, networked each other. A substantive program was prepared, from which you could draw quite a few cognition and everyone left positively charged. At the same time, everyone remained with the banner of the organization he represented. No one's missed it.
„Tour de Constitution PL“ is besides held in the unifying narrative.
No one's imposing anything here either. The map of the towns where we go is made by ourselves. Local civic groups are coming to us. During our meetings, no of the political organization representatives will appear on the platform. There were temptations, but I cut it off fast. These meetings are expected to be our unifying civic vote. Politicians have media and a million another opportunities to scope people, and they inactive do not usage them very often. By the way, their deficiency of commitment is shocking. Unless it's election time.
So the local community needs to get involved. We organize it together. In an open space, for example in a park, so that residents can pass by, sit down, perceive to what we're talking about.
Why the Basic Law?
I was wondering, what can we all meet about? Around the Constitution. It's that simple. It's a small book that any of us can revive. For that to happen, you gotta read it. Not to become an expert on constitutional law, but to get a image of what the language is written, what it tells about, how much it can be drawn from itself.
Meanwhile, the constitution has been an illegal word for respective years. Just a fewer days after your action, Minister of Education Przemysław Czarnek considered the participation of students in the “Tour de Constitution PL” to be a “disgusting scandal”.
It was about the Dobczyce meeting. Paradoxically, the minister helped us develop, we got publicity. It is undoubtedly very sad that the headmistress of the school from which the students were at our gathering is suspended so far. 1 of the teachers was spit on the street. Others asked us not to talk about them anymore, to hide. This is simply a tiny community, they were intimidated.
What precisely did you risk?
There's any kids who started asking us questions. Very cool open questions. Nothing else happened. What I said. No self-thinking – fascism. Orwell. According to the current authority, this state is to decide the way of life on which the citizen is to move.
The suppression, the suppression of any social initiative in the embryo.
That's making people. Our action is out of hand due to the fact that people who have no cognition of their own rights are easier to manipulate. „Tour de Constitution PL“ goes to talk about these rights.
How did you convince so many excellent lawyers of your idea?
It was a trial, too. I got to know them a small bit by organizing KORD conventions. They knew Hojda wouldn't lead them astray. The mark was shared. I gave them a warrant that no political organization would participate. I have no aspirations to go to parliament either.
Why are you so shy about this?
Because I know how fewer people on the street can go in there. Their hands are tied. Whether it is simply a democratic power or an undemocratic one, there is simply a guru and a army of soldiers in the parliamentary club, and they decide.
Politicians gotta be. It's good that they recruit from civilian groups, too.
They gotta be, but this is expected to be democracy. Meanwhile, erstwhile individual comes from the street and becomes an MP, they silence him. It's not until the election run starts to request him. Politicians praise him: “Look, we are a pro-democracy party, on our lists are representatives of civilian movements”. What's next? There's nothing they can do. The question is whether these politicians should not be changed. In England, the minister released an authoritative paper from a private email box. It's over. Smoke. It's not private, it's state property. It's time for party, parliamentary ranks to get any air.
At first I thought that TdK was expected to be an act of solidarity towards judges harassed by power and dismissed from ruling.
It took me a while to explain to the judges that at our meetings, we were not dealing with the defence of the free courts, but indirectly. This thread could be changing. It is citizens who stand before courts, citizens defend free courts and in this task all lawyers – judges, prosecutors, advocates, lawyers – are to be for citizens. “You are here to aid them realize what the Constitution is. Examples can be given different, but halt talking only about free courts! They are important, but this is not the only part of public life. People have many another problems. The woods cut them out, the river poisons, individual is mobbed at work for their views, individual is restricted by parental rights, individual is persecuted due to the fact that he has colored hair or is homosexual.”
My lawyer on this case rapidly became justice Igor Tuley. Then the judges of Waldemar Żurek, Paweł Yuszszyn, joined. They were followed by justice Joanna Hetnarowicz Sikora, Beata Morawiec, but besides prosecutors Ewa Wrzosek, Jarosław Onyszczuk, but besides Danuta Przywara from the Helsinki Foundation for Human Rights, Prof. Ewa Łętowska and of course Adam Bodnar inactive as Ombudsman and many, many another noble people.
Didn't anyone boycott you?
There have been times erstwhile people came and attacked us, someway they wanted to make it hard for us to hold the convention. There were more on the first edition than there were on the second edition. Now it's quiet. More people are listening. They're out of sight. They pretend to be gone, and they are, for erstwhile the assembly ends, the surrounding benches are desolate.
What are the reactions? What do people say?
And for the citizens? A young man after gathering Tuleya or Yuszczyszne says: “Holy, I see a surviving judge! I can talk to him and contact him.” He said it with a large take. It is besides building a sense of self-esteem and strength. So the courtroom might not be so terrible for him anymore. possibly he won't be in the position of a humble servant. Knowing the law, knowing what he deserves, he'll feel more confident. He won't quit easily, he can fight for himself. Today, quite a few people after street experience, face-to-face with the police, are no longer allowed to treat themselves as a subject.
When you say "out of the street," do you mean people who take part in demonstrations?
Yeah. Those who tasted street life.
Did they taste it?
They tasted it. You can remember that. I personally sacrificed quite a few it. I've paid for my job. In these hot days of demonstrations, I was practically out of the house. I know the street well, from the inside, including court hearings, pushing with the police. I've been through this. After work, I wasn't going home, I was going right under the Sejm or something in town.
What do you do for a living?
Recently I was manager of a manufacturing and trading company, which I developed for 3 years. I did a reorganization, resulting in profits. It was a tiny company, employing 150 people. But at any point my contact with unacceptable people for this power, with lawyers, activists, social media activity, made my employer scared. He was afraid of what power was doing to disloyal companies. “We will come, we will control you. We'll send the IRS. There is always something.” I've worked 3 months to the last day. Culturally, we thanked each other.
I lived for a year and a half with savings, which I besides spent on KORD. It's time I had to reevaluate my life. Am I inactive active in civic activities, or am I leaving KORD and taking on a job? It would be impossible to combine this in the long run.
And you followed your heart that I would talk so poorly.
Autumn 2020. It was a time erstwhile civilian movements began to lose their strength. The concept of „Tour de Constitution PL“ was intended to be a test for citizens' movements in Poland, whether we inactive want it. I took the trouble. The first individual I called was Zbyszek Holdys, and he told me, “Do it.” I besides called a couple of first stops. The remainder of the volunteers were expected to come in on their own. A website was created with all essential information and regulations. “Everything is ready. You enter or not.” After the first round, I didn't know if there would be a sequel. However, it turned out that civic movements became involved.
Within 3 weeks we collected PLN 140,000 and was purchased a bus – TourdeBUS. No supporters! People gave money for the bus and the sound system.
Just from a social media gathering?
Yes, the deposits were very different. For me, the most touching, but besides a peculiar sense of work for each gold coin spent, were the lowest. I remember a fewer of 10 zlotys with a note like, “I'm sorry that that's all I'm going to get, but I'm going to get a pension soon, and then I'm going to add another so much.” I know any people who share their money, and I know how much that means to them.
It is simply a pity that those who truly can, and I have in head especially business, do not engage their resources in helping foundations like ours. They evidently underestimate our work, which will besides bring profits to them at the right time.
Today, any of them are only reasoning about safe endurance in peace and quiet, but no of the state institutions like the IRS, the State Labour Inspection, The EMT or CBA didn't get in their ass. PiS late threatened entrepreneurs by arresting Confederate president Lewiatan Maciej Witucki. specified intimidation works. But I'm besides certain that erstwhile they feel the wind of renewal, they will reactivate. Success has many fathers. That's the way it is. Fortunately, there are inactive companies that do not break and are active in helping. 1 of them is f-ma Press Glass, who, through its only yearly economical Freedom Foundation, importantly supports not only our actions. Thank you very much.
What do I do for a living? My savings are not forever. At this phase of the action, I cannot imagine combining my social and professional work. Today, although we are not on the road, and individual has made a mistake and has not planned for at least 36 hours, all day I race with time to keep up with all plans and commitments. It's a decision. We agreed that I was the only 1 to go in. At the end of the fall, 2021, I, as president, have a position in the foundation.
Is the president's wage adequate to keep his motorcycle?
Nope. My Harley is my love, and I would give anything that I've been very neglecting lately. The motorcycle period in Poland is short, and then I'm behind the wheel of the Tour de Bus and I'm the only 1 who knows how I feel erstwhile motorcyclists fly next to me. I believe everything will be back to normal. He has to, or I'll choke. Yes, this passion is my oxygen of freedom, but now things are more important.
Let's get back to the language. prof. Ewa Łętowska admitted “It is easier for us to talk the language of the paragraphs”. Lawyers live in their bubble where they communicate with interior codes and channels. I'm certain they must've been beautiful bare to scope people with no contact with the legal world.
That's inactive the case today. 1 of the judges erstwhile asked rhetorically, “Why do we say that?” Judges and prosecutors say it's a large discipline for them to communicate with citizens. They saw how crucial it was to get out of the judges' togs with this dense eagle and an equally dense chain around their necks, stand in T-shirt and face-to-face talk to citizens.
We're on it. Debates on inclusive language are organised. But why is it called that?! That's the incomprehensible language! Excluding many people. 1 can say: language for everyone alternatively of inclusive.
Sometimes I get the impression that I, in turn, can't break through any further, just due to the fact that possibly for the media my way of communicating is besides simple. Yes, I received quite a few praise. Nice. Thank you, but what are you gonna do about it?
That's why I feel best in tiny towns. erstwhile we break the first ice cream, there is genuine curiosity and gratitude. Indescribable. But the media is not interested. Not interested, or not interested, in civic education. They are most curious in what sells well, for example Dobrzyce, due to the fact that there was a conflict, a sensation.
I meet people who think it's incomprehensible.
Look at prof. Marcin Matczak, how he clearly explains the most complex issues, although he could empathize with paragraphs. This is Ace. People value him for it.
TdK participants had to learn, move, lower, as prof. Łętowska says, to the level of average man. If people with faculty don't understand, we'll lose a lot.
Both prof. Matczak and prof. Adam Bodnar, who has been riding with us since 2021, believe that TdK is much needed. Věra Jourová of the European Commission, with whom we met in Gdańsk, said that in her opinion this task should be conducted continuously in all EU countries. Democracy is not given erstwhile and for all. Nowhere.
Two years and respective 1000 kilometers behind us, we visited over 170 localities, about 30,000 copies of the Constitution went to Poland.
Did people who came to TdK meetings address lawyers with circumstantial problems?
Yeah. Always in the authoritative part. This is not an intervention project, but we always advise where to start. Local attorneys or legal advisors began to appreciate that they could present themselves. The second circular consisted of more cooperation with the Polish Bar and with the National Chamber of Legal Advisors, which are to safe legal information in the 3rd edition of the TdK. At each gathering there will be a lawyer who will be able to search advice during the assembly. Local lawyer notabene.
The first edition of the „Tour de Constitution PL“ afraid civilian rights. The second was held under the slogan “With Europe on our way”. And the third?
We're all around the Constitution and human rights. We bring together a leaflet, which we support and distribute nonstop, about the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the EU and the Polish Constitution. We wanted to show that European law is not detached from the reality in which we live. Answer the question if he cares about us. So he cares, absolutely. We talked about the proximity of Europe, which we owe to it.
The 3rd edition, due to the fact that the elections are coming, is organized under the slogan “I vote for Poland”. On intent for Poland. Not democracy, not tolerance, community etc. This password sounds now, the 3rd edition begins slowly. People will wonder: Who are you to vote for Poland? The first thought will be that it's pro-script, most likely any right.
Do we gotta rewind the common value annexed by power?
Yeah. On November 9, we started with regular online meetings. all 2 weeks we will encourage citizens not only to go to elections, but to be active, to sit on election committees to be social observers. Our broadcast will be streaming on various citizen channels. We are already on a date with our crucial consultant, justice Wojciech Hermelinski, justice of the Constitutional Court at remainder and erstwhile president of the State Electoral Commission and Counselor Beata Tokaj, who at 1 time besides chaired the State Electoral Commission. Dr. hab will besides support us. Anna Rakowska Trela and Dr. Adam Gendwił. A crowd of lawyers will join them.
Training, with the participation of lawyers from all over Poland, is organized by an highly effective patron of King Dagmara Siadlak, vice-president of the KORD Foundation. These meetings must not be boring to people outside the legal community. We don't want to get tired, we just want to rise interest. As part of the various episodes divided into quarters, we answer questions from the erstwhile episode, address the next issue and for the last 15 minutes we talk to the invited guest, a well-known individual who declares: “I vote for Poland”. **
We cooperate with Marcin Skubiszewski's group „Electoral Observatory“*, which has very much experience and already has training for those willing to participate during elections.
Your view of civic activity and civic passivity? Is it not that we are exhausting in criticism of power in our midst and frequently in complaining about the current situation ends? The devastate of democratic order is progressing while we are busy with our affairs. How do you measure the willingness to act?
Ready. We request religion based on experience that our actions will have any effect. If we didn't curse reality, the last years of street people's efforts did not bring tangible results. may in any individual cases. We owe ourselves a little.
It was demotivating, yes, but if there were no protests, the power would have no brakes.
This is besides a question of governance. Without idolatry, but he is the leader who leads the group, he should know where the finish is and let him not anticipate the people who go with him to see this far-off goal and to survive. The function of the leader is to designate short episodes and to win the prize “There is simply a win, you have something, we go on.”
TdK Wins?
Thanks to TdK people met or got to know each another in their towns. These are their prey. I have quite a few feedback! A civic group was established in 1 of the east cities of Poland. Oh, for example: A tiny town girl just professionally recorded a song due to the fact that she had the chance to execute at the end of our assembly. The foundations and associations have survived somewhere due to the fact that people have taken wind on the sails. Sometimes it's small things, but it happens.
It is hard for us to rebuild social engagement due to the fact that we do not believe that our voice, motion or movement truly matters. I presume that the emotional wave will besides be raised by political parties and that people will mobilize. If you number solely on the sense of civic work and leave it at that, the voter turnout would be weak.
So the occupation to do is agitation? It won't do itself.
An example. Another point on the map TdK – the tiny town of Volczyn. It was organised by Casper, a boy who was 18 years old, working in Wrocław. Volcano is where he grew up and studied. He truly wanted us to come there.
Adam Bodnar, Igor Tuley, Danek Przywara from the Helsinki Human Rights Foundation are coming with me in the Tour de Bus... We arrive and there is no 1 at the scene. We're getting off, any Igora gentlemen are attacking due to the fact that he's been recognized. We should get started. I'm calling that boy. He says he's gonna be late. He's here, he's flying with a suitcase with a speaker, microphones... Adam Bodnar then joked: “I thought you would teardrop him to pieces.” Plus, the boy was shaking, and he should have opened the assembly. He couldn't say a word. I had to aid him. I hugged him and said, “Don’t worry, we’ll get started.”
Including possibly 13 people. Among us was the boy's teacher. How arrogant was she of him?! Everyone had exclusive contact with the people to whom queues stand in large cities. I mean, it's so large and it's so close. The local school has pictures of this meeting.
Was there quite a few turnouts like this?
A few. Importantly, the same boy a year later organized 3 meetings in tiny towns. This is simply a evidence for those who did not believe that we would come or laughter or mock. We always leave a mark.
I went with the children to the TdK halt in Siemiatycze last year. I thought I was going to a gathering with prof. Bodnar, and that was something, but I saw Igor Tuley in sneakers, or equally informally dressed judges Wojciech Hermelinski, Włodzimierz Wróbel. lawyer Anna Gienusz-Klubowicz, prosecutor Zbigniew Szpiczko (Lex Super Omnia) arrived... I'm speechless. I wasn't arrogant of attendance either, I missed my teachers' friends, but I'm certain it wasn't empty.
This does not change the fact that even if we were to come to the village where 3 people were waiting for us, we would make specified an event as if there were 3 hundred. Without demeaning anyone or anything.
I repeat: each of us has equal rights. And I urge you to read the Constitution. To claim your rights, you gotta know them.
Purity of intent, no organization affiliation, no emblems, nothing. These are the rules that we have besides established for the safety of judges and prosecutors. And the organizer must be flawless.
Does it happen to be unclean?
We had to cancel 1 meeting. Chelma. The organizer was a man sentenced by a final sentence. If that's not enough, he opened the assembly before we arrived.
I asked the judges and prosecutors aside, told them what the situation was. They agreed to cancel the meeting. The atmosphere was depressing. On top of that, it started raining. People are standing there waiting. They see something's wrong. I gotta go out and say we're leaving. Disappointment. They've come to listen, to strengthen themselves mentally. It's not just a fun party, though it can be fun.
Then, in this Chelm, a woman comes up to us and says to us, “I only ask you, do not forget us. I beg you.” And he's crying. I said we won't forget, we'll come at another time. I'll never forget it. This event has shown that for people it has a advanced emotional value, although they will not always talk about it. Of course, the meeting, as promised, took place. And in full sunlight. This year we've been like this for the 3rd time.
People are so hungry for education?
It's hard to talk about education due to the fact that it takes time. I tell people: “We come to you to sow the seed, whether it yields the fruit, it is up to you. We will go, you will stay with this small book.”
What's building me? Many times I have seen through the eyes of my imagination, as if those who come to disrupt, disrupt the gathering were falling out of the hands of all sharp tools. The mute sound of iron that falls.
The press reports mainly conflicts. The press mentality, now besides the serious one, does not pull up. You tell me very different stories. present I actually heard only 1 negative event during TdK – about the incidental in Dobczyce.
We gotta give people and ourselves time to rebuild trust, in ourselves. due to the fact that we've been fooled many times too, not only by power. Unfortunately, the fact is, we shoot ourselves too. alternatively of connecting, we compete unhealthyly.
Right. It's human nature. But it doesn't mean we're out of common sense.
But there's besides human culture.
Exactly. We just want to be heard or seen. At a gathering in Pabianice: “And due to PO...”, I hear no of this. “ But what PO? We are talking about patriotism.” “What kind of patriot are you?”. “I will tell you.”
I admire you.
And I'm starting to tell this man, for example, about the Silence March. And I see 2 worlds rubbing in it. The 1 with whom he came to attack us and my planet – the man who devotes time to him, represents any values. And he starts telling himself what patriotism is to him. This lasted possibly 15 minutes, and then this man tells me, “You know what, I'm not truly a PiSem.”
(Laughter) You can rewind.
"You know, this is your case. I am glad we could talk.” We shook hands, truly kind. He listened to the full show. He stayed with us until the end. And there's a way to build.
She spoke: Anna Maruszko. The interview took place in November 2022.
Robert Hojda
The founder and president of the Foundation legislature of the Democratic Movements (KORD), organizer of the task “Tour de Constitution PL”, which is attended by dozens of legal worlds in Poland, creator and organizer of “March of Silence”44”.
Food technology, a trader. Production and Sales Manager, Qualified Professional Teacher. A strategy for the improvement of tiny and medium-sized enterprises. It has competence in building technological and production lines and in conducting staff training. He has experience in interpersonal and social relations. He worked in global corporations. Harley.
Robert HojdaThe initiator and organizer of the Tour de Constitution task is the Democratic Movement civilian legislature Foundation.
The co-organisers are local civic movements, representations of local law institutions, citizens.
Donators: Citizens, Henryk Wujec Civic Fund, Foundation of economical Freedom, Polish Attorneys, National Chamber of Legal Advisors. The honorary patronage over the first edition was assumed by RPO VII Cadence Adam Bodnar.
Henry Uncle's Civic Fund one more time – and again as the first, supported the citizens' task financially Tour de Constitution PL.
