Now is the right time to make changes and take decisions and actions that will change the image of the Polish Armed Forces Group and increase its potential. I know the strengths of the Group as a full and I know that the well-managed consequence to the challenges that are facing the Group – says Krzysztof Trofiniak, president of PGZ-et.
You know the Polish defence manufacture from the inside. Since the beginning of your professional career, you have been active with the Polish Armoured Group. In March 2024 you returned to the PGZ-et to take the helm. What are your goals?
Krzysztof Trofiniak: Of course there are respective of them, but above all I would like to make certain that the Polish Armed Forces Group offers as many good quality products as possible. And this is the overarching goal – to establish production capacity and offer the Polish Army top-class solutions.
What kind of products?
I would divide them into 3 basic groups: vehicles, ammunition and anti-aircraft and rocket defence solutions – from command systems, through radiolocation, on effectors.
Let's start with the vehicles. What peculiar structures do you mean?
We have 3 key vehicle programmes that should be implemented and for which framework agreements have been signed. The first is simply a fresh wheeled armored transporter, the second is simply a dense caterpillar platform, which can be the base for a heavy-duty infantry car, and the 3rd is simply a fresh base tank.
What phase are they at?
Unfortunately, no 1 has yet entered the implementation phase, which concerns me due to the fact that specified vehicles are needed by our armed forces.
Do you request fresh wheeled armored transporters, or improved wolverines? The maker of these trucks offers specified a vehicle – Rosomaka XP.
In the case of this car, there are very serious doubts as to whether the military's ballistic opposition requirements could be met. A larger armor mass requires a completely different chassis structure and a larger engine to keep field capabilities. This is the domino effect.
So we're going to launch a program to make a fresh transporter?
Not really. If we decide to do investigation and development, i.e. to make our transporter from zero, we know, for example, from the experience of Borsuk that it takes at least 10 to 15 years. I don't think we have that much time right now. I think we should get a licence donor as shortly as possible. The same model of action could be utilized in a heavy-duty infantry car.
We've got it. Badger. Can't he be a base for a dense combat infantry car?
In my opinion, that is impossible. Badger was designed as a vehicle with a circumstantial mass and was adapted to this drive and suspension components. They cannot be easy redesigned to a vehicle with a mass of 15 t, due to the fact that specified parameters are to have a dense transporter. A fresh platform is so needed, with a circumstantial mass, with a certain modernisation stock.
Another license?
In view of the deadlines expected by the Ministry of Defence, which indicate the request to deliver these vehicles from 2026 to 1927, this is the only way out. I will immediately stress that both Silesian companies from PGZ-et will be active in this project, as well as a squad of combined Poznań companies.
Connected companies?
I am in favour of the Polish Military Automotive Plant from Poznań creating a much stronger entity with Cegielski in terms of production capacity. You just gotta do it smarter than Autosan, Jelcza and Huta Stalowa Wola.
What mistakes were made in the consolidation of HSW, Jelcz and Autosan?
I think it was incorrect to make Autosan part of the Steel Wola Huta. This company should be part of Jelcza, strengthening it by capital, bringing its production and human resources to it. In Autosan's case, a political decision was made to save the company, but at the same time, there was no thought of how to lead the company's economy, what products should be created there to keep it.
Why was it not created on the basis of Jelcz, Autosan and parts of HSW car entity, company?
I've been asking the same question for weeks. Jelcz should constantly not only increase production but besides improve its range. His trucks should be getting better, gathering fresh requirements, i.e. having independent suspension. specified vehicles are needed for any radars or rocket launchers. I believe that what has happened over the last 2 years, during which respective crucial contracts have been lost to abroad companies, is unacceptable. Autosan should be a natural base for Jelcz. If there was cooperation between them, it would let you to get those deals.
Has there been a proposal to increase Jelcza's production capacity through the acquisition of the liquidated Stellantis mill from Bielsko-Biała? Would that be a good idea?
That wouldn't be a good idea. Remember how vast the area with many halls was to be bought there. besides large for us. The assembly of trucks besides requires circumstantial equipment for production halls, and existing buildings cannot always be adapted to the needs of specified production.
Perhaps it would be worth the temptation to make specified an engine mill for various types of vehicles in PGZ?
It is very hard to answer that question, because, above all, 1 would gotta consider whether we have the technological, financial and, finally, human resources to face this challenge. I believe that we do not have any organised human resource, which is already in operation, which could deal comprehensively with full propulsion teams. It's a different component for them.
Like what?
Like drive axles and simplification boxes. In this respect, we have both human resources and production capacity in public and private entities. A fewer years ago there was a task to launch the production of Polish drive bridges for trucks Jelcz. However, nothing has been done so far.
Would that be economically viable?
The number of trucks, which is ordered by the Polish Army, justifies most clearly the launch of production of power units, especially bridges and distribution boxes. If we are to produce about a 1000 trucks for the Polish Army next year, this gives at least, counting 3 bridges per vehicle, 3,000 bridges. I do not think that the company will proceed to produce only 1 thing, but if, for example, it already has loads of 30-40% of its potential, then, after adding a further 40%, the possible of the production plant is actually being utilized reasonably.
The second group of products you mentioned as improvement precedence for PGZ-et is ammunition.
It's not that bad for tiny caliber ammunition. We produce it ourselves, although any processes request to be perfected, moving from manual production to more automated, but this process continues. The biggest problem we have is large calibers. In terms of both shell capacity and propellant loads. This must be our precedence for the next 2 or 3 years.
But Mesko, Pionki, and Dezamet got quite a few backing for this...
Unfortunately, not for the production of multi-base drugs. There's no money for that. We are only here at the approval phase of the co-financing project. So we look forward to providing investment financing and effort to strengthen cooperation of the PGZ-et in the field of ammunition production with another companies, including private companies.
The 3rd precedence is anti-aircraft and rocket defense. What phase are we at?
The work goes as planned. Let me remind you that the lowest layer of anti-aircraft defense This is completely our Polish system. In case of Narew short-range system We're working with the British. I hope that this year we will negociate the records of all the another agreements. As far as the top layer is concerned, we have a measurable consequence of cooperation with American partners in the form of a signed contract for 48 Patriot strategy launchers under the 2nd phase of the Vistula programme. They will emergence in HSW.
Talking about the improvement plans of the PGZ-et, about key products, weapon systems, it is impossible not to ask about Korean contracts. It is the PGZ to produce the Polishized K2 tanks, cannonhaubice K9 or yet K239 Chunmoo launchers. What phase are we at? Let's start with K2.
We have a fresh consortium agreement between Hyundai and PGZ-et, which includes circumstantial tasks and duties of both parties, and in the future we will consistently enforce these provisions. The second implementing agreement is simply a prerequisite for this programme to decision forward. Unfortunately, without it we have nothing, of course in the production of K2PL tanks. erstwhile it comes to servicing and handling K2 tanks that are already in service, we have very advanced conversations and negotiations and we are actually finishing.
Another Korean task is the production in Poland of brazohaubic K9. What's the stage?
Very akin to K2PL tanks. There is an executive contract for the transportation of K9 and negotiations are underway on another crab agreement. I hope that shortly this contract between HSW and the Armed Forces Agency will be signed.
Is it possible to produce simultaneously in HSW crabs and K9PL?
The needs of Polish artillery are easy to determine. We know how many 155 mm fire systems have been ordered and how many have already been delivered. We request to be certain how much equipment we request and how long. Is HSW ready to produce crabs and K9 simultaneously? Absolutely.
But does that make sense? Since many experts say directly: crabs are better and this is simply a Polish product.
Honestly, there is no second example in the planet where the country tried to drown its own product. There is no specified example, but political decisions were made and contracts were signed.
Let's go back to tank K2. Does its possible production shut us down to another projects? There are French-German or German-Italian projects and we are invited to both. How should we respond?
We should definitely be open to specified cooperation. Let us remember that these projects are just beginning. This means that it takes at least 10 years to start producing specified a tank and another fewer years to make and refine it. So this is simply a task of the future, and we request to think about the future today.
If we're talking about the future and the past, you're back in PGZ after 8 years. How well did you find her company? Which company amazed you most on the plus side?
Like Military Aviation Plant No. 1. Only a fewer years ago, it was a company facing the problems of maintaining the ability it had. First of all, due to the fact that the tender for Caracale was cancelled. This agreement in my opinion would be a lever that would bring WZL1 to the top of the Polish armory. Fortunately, smaller contracts appeared, which put the company on its feet.
I know you don't want to point out the weak companies in the Group, but I don't think it's a secret to anyone that the second of the aviation companies of PGZ-etu, i.e. Bydgoszcz's WZL No. 2, is not in the best condition. What about the Orlik programme that would let the company to find fresh outlets?
“Orlik” is 1 large screw-up and an example of a program that has been run incorrect since the beginning. And he must be healed. We're working on rediscovering it, not only in terms of functionality, but besides in terms of technology, which is the aircraft itself. The biggest problem that needs an urgent solution is the engine. The time that has passed since the launch of this program makes the current plan form and form request to be verified, and in many respects redefined.
Some experts note that the “Orlik” made a fundamental mistake by choosing the incorrect form of implementation of the programme.
A mistake was made by deciding to include the project, which should be carried out in the framework of investigation and development, in the acquisition task with adjustment. I'll tell you more. I am certain that then the decision-makers who chose E310 as the base for Orlik knew perfectly well that this unmanned man could not meet the requirements of the army, for example in terms of burden capacity, engine power, expected flight parameters. However, we are working to save this program and supply the military with a product that meets the requirements. We are aware of the function played by unmanned people in the modern battlefield.
The plans and challenges facing you and the full board are very ambitious and demanding. Do you believe that we can change the PGZ so that we can do all this?
I am aware of the challenges ahead of us. But I besides know that right now is the right time to make changes and make decisions and actions that will change the image of the Polish Armed Forces Group and increase its potential. I know the strengths of the full Group and I know that well-managed challenges confronting it.
