Conversation with Roberto Fiore (Forza Nova)
I'll start with any controversial questions, if you don't mind.
Deal.
You are the hero of any Polish liberal media. You've been to Poland respective times, we've met here too. The first question concerns what appears in any of our liberal and centred mainstream media. This is simply a question about your past, especially the celebrated Bologna bombing and your activity in the extremist Italian nationalist movement. Is there anything you could say about that? Why did you leave Italy in 1981?
- In 1980. It's very simple. I was 21 at the time, and I was at the head of the 3rd Position Group (Tera Posizione), rejecting and Marxism, and capitalism. We were becoming very strong, but then there was any kind of collusion between any judges, peculiar services, police and politicians, where repression on a massive scale began against this group. And yet we are talking about young people, people aged up to 20-22. Many of them received five-year prison sentences. I left the country and got to Britain. Requests for extradition were attempted, but did not result. I spent 18 years in the United Kingdom awaiting a statute of limitations on my sentence. At 1 point I was besides accused of the Bologna bombing; this was related to an effort to blow up a train. But fortunately, it was possible to identify the actual perpetrators who proved to be the leading members of the P-2 Masonic Lodge along with military peculiar services. They're the ones who planted the explosives in specified a way that they can be found to charge certain people, including me. In this case, the justice strategy worked properly. They were all arrested and spent six years in prison. As a result, in the Bologna case, I had the position of a victim. I won quite a few lawsuits against the media writing on this case.
I see. All of this happened during a period known as the “year of lead” (anni di piombo). I mean, this violent time in Italian politics. How do you remember those days? What was all this about, the force committed on the 1 hand by the left, on the another hand by the right?
– It was an highly chaotic period. It was created by a generation of young people with utmost political emotions. all day there were demonstrations, street clashes. However, I must emphasise that the most work for this was the hidden structures of the state. They created the problem of double extremism. They were handing over weapons to both sides of the conflict. In this way, they sought to origin each another to fight, to shed blood, which was expected to origin public fear. This has ensured that the Chadek regulation is maintained. Many crimes were committed at that time by people associated with peculiar services. Of course, it was besides done by average people due to the prevailing atmosphere of street war. This has led to the demolition of a full generation. Thousands of people went to prison. The establishment defeated the extremist political planet in this war.
Could you shed any light and explain the another charges that appear at your address? In any media, mostly mainstream, article writers say that you had to be someway active with British peculiar services and that's why you spent so many years in the United Kingdom avoiding extradition. How would you comment?
– They refused extradition due to the fact that a reliable justice ruled. He was the 1 who, after a fewer months of investigation that I was placed in Her Majesty's prison in Brixton, concluded that there was no evidence against us. He apologized for keeping us in prison and ordered us fired immediately. So this was not a case where peculiar services would have kept the keys from our detention, but simply a justice acting in accordance with the traditions of the British justice system, which was inactive working rather well at the time. He's the 1 who decided our innocence. We were allowed to stay in Britain for 20 years, we were allowed to deal with successful business, but besides to engage in many political activities. And the fact is that our enemies in our country, mostly those of the Zionist leftist ranks, spread the version of our relation with British secret services. There was no evidence of that. There was no reason for these services to aid us start a business and accomplish rather considerable financial success. These are just vile attempts to hit our image, due to the fact that we became interesting – and we are inactive – to many people.
You went to Britain with a celebrated musician, singer, Massimo Morsello, didn't you?
– Yes, Massimo Morsello was a real soul on a cultural level, and I was more afraid with the political level. Unfortunately, he died very young, only 42 years old. However, he managed to make serious business structures with me, which enabled us to operate effectively. I would not say that we were exceptionally wealthy, but we could take action across Europe and the UK itself.
Yes, it was besides interesting for us in Poland. Your initiative of the global 3rd Position seemed rather original. In the 1990s, you were in Britain, but at that time you managed to make a network across Europe.
- Yeah. The thought was to gather people and decision around the concept of a 3rd position. It became rather popular at a time erstwhile Marxism and communism collapsed, while the capitalist system, the American system, was already exhibiting its weaknesses. Our 1970s and 1980s analysis proved to be correct. We have managed to spread them throughout our British London period throughout Europe. They shaped the profile of nationalist leaders for the following years. We request to replace Nick Griffin here.
Returning to Italy, there was a peculiar evolution of the post-fascist movement, from the Italian Social Movement (MSI) to the National Alliance (AN). My first question so besides concerns any controversy. What is your approach to the tradition of Italian Fascism?
– It's beautiful simple. Fascism was victorious in the war but was not overcome ideologically. In more detail, we request to consider why the communists and the left were so afraid of him. I think the reason for this was and is that Fascism managed to overcome communism not in a military sense, but from an ideological point of view. If we look at what happened in the fascist period, we will see a number of social policy measures for workers. Many communists then began to modify their view of matters specified as historical materialism, class struggle, etc., and approached fascism. Let us just remind you that the leader of the communist party, Palmiro Togliatti, appealed in 1938 to all communists to join the fascist party. In fact, Fascism was victorious in an ideological clash, though it shortly lost the war. After the war, we had a social, national and extremist trend that was not effectively organized in the MSI. No uncertainty this movement has fought successfully in many cases, against the Communists, but besides against the Liberals. At the same time there were street environments, revolutionary ones, remaining outside the MSI. These environments were far from being agreed with the National Alliance, and now – with the Italian Brothers Giorgia Meloni.
The evolution of MSI in a conservative direction has become the origin of divisions, including the creation of the Tricolour Flame (Fiamma Tricolore). Later there were more. That's erstwhile you decided to start your own party. I mean the fresh Force. What were the reasons for this political decision?
That was 1997. The Italian brothers did not be then, was the National Alliance. Our objections to AN afraid liberalism, capitalism, the pro-American attitude that we have always opposed; and, of course, Zionism. We have always supported the Palestinian cause, the position of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the creation of a single Palestinian state in which all communities would regulation themselves. This is the complete other of the Zionist concept, according to which there is simply a single state based on apartheid, racism and a sense of superiority. These were issues that have always placed us in opposition to the National Alliance and the Italian Brothers. Especially now that we have the Italian Brothers in a right-wing government that clearly cooperates with the United States, sending weapons to Ukraine. In the Palestinian-Israeli war we are on the Palestinian side. We are besides convinced that Italy should play an crucial function as a consequence of its past and its Mediterranean position, a country that promotes peace and order in Europe, besides based on a Christian factor. In the interests of not only the state, but above all the Italian people.
That's very interesting. Many believe that opposition to immigration must always be linked to racism or a sense of superiority. But you say that if it comes to the countries of North Africa from which the immigration problem originates, but also, for example, Palestine – the main origin of the problem is the destabilisation of these countries by the Atlantic or Zionists.
- Yeah. The function of Italy in the Mediterranean and Africa is highly important. Giorgia Meloni spoke much about plans to return to the right policy towards Africa. This was to be based on the implementation of Mattei's plan, 1 of the power sector tycoons who maintained good relations with this continent. Meanwhile, Meloni is actually doing the exact opposite. During her visit to Tunisia, along with Ursula von der Leyen, she urged the authorities of that country to owe themselves to the global Monetary Fund, which includes reductions in wages, pensions and social funds. This has nothing to do with Mattei's plan, it's a classical plan to subdue Africa. Fortunately, Africa is taking a different path. If we look at Burkina Faso, another countries of the Sahara, there is an thought of national sovereignty, concern for the future of our own societies, which is something fresh in Africa. We are witnessing a legitimate consequence against French dominance, followed by a akin reaction against the Americans.
As far as Giorgia Meloni is concerned, many people from the right side of the political scene in Poland besides had large hopes for her and the Italians. Who took control of Meloni and her organization that she became so pro-Western, pro-Atlantic, etc.? What are her relationships with Atlantic and neoconservative centres?
– The analysis leads to rather simple conclusions: over all parties there is simply a hidden state (deep state). And it was she who decides about political change that listed Salvini on Meloni. Salvini's support fell from over 20% to 7% as a consequence of media operations and various maneuvers. Meloni was chosen in a war situation as a deep state typical because, as you know, many arms transfers occur. In Italy and another countries, any make quite a few money from this weapon. This is besides seen in another areas. For example, we have a very knowing policy in relation to the mafia system. There is something like tolerating the 3 largest groups of the criminal planet – the mafia, the Camorra and the indrangheta, which conduct business, control any areas in many regions. So I don't see much change. I besides see no change in immigration. During Meloni's rule, the number of immigrants increased 5 times. Also, if there has been any change here – it is for the worse.
This is like in Poland with the Government of Law and Justice. They criticized immigration as such, but during their regulation we had the largest number of immigrants. The European Parliament elections will be held next year. We know that you are 1 of the key figures in the Alliance for Peace and Freedom, which brings together akin reasoning national parties from different countries of Europe. What are your predictions of the result of these elections? What will be the main topics of your campaign?
– We had rather a position in Europe 4-6 years ago. Gold Dawn in Greece had 12% support, the Mariana Kotleby organization in Slovakia had about 10%, and we besides had rather good ratings. In many lands where we have gained support, we have experienced many repressions. In the case of the Golden Dawn, these repressions have led to a situation where many of its leaders are inactive in prison today. The Kotleba group was destroyed by making incredibly absurd charges against him. In Italy, as you most likely know, me and 12 people from Forza Nova spent 9 and a half months in custody after the large protests that we organized on October 9, 2021 against Covid passports. After all, we had to reorganize. 2 weeks ago, we had an crucial visit to Greece. We have organised a joint conference of leaders of the various movements in Serbia to express our support for the Serbian people on Kosovo. We are trying to regain strength in another countries, to become even stronger there than we erstwhile were. But we request a fewer months for that. In Italy, we have the advantage that we do not gotta collect signatures, due to the fact that in the last elections we had Members elected to the European Parliament. In theory, therefore, we are presently in a very fast recovery phase. This is not an easy task. We request patriots from different countries to work together.
You've been to Poland respective times. How do you feel about anti-system movements in Poland? Can our country, in your opinion, reduce dependence on the United States and the Anglo-Saxon geopolitical centre?
Poland is simply a very crucial country. The spirit of the Polish nation is inactive close to the large values of this country. This is not just about territory, but besides about spiritual faith, as well as a sense of social justice. Of course, we see the fact that the capitalist strategy is strong in Poland, but the issues of social justice stay more crucial in you than in Italy. It's a very crucial and good thing. I have very crucial relations with nationalist movements in Poland. For 7 or 8 more years, I came to the independency March. I had the honor of speaking on this march. Things have changed for me lately. I am opposed to the war between Ukraine and Russia, I am not anti-Russian, although I realize that Poland must be careful here to keep complete sovereignty. Unfortunately, anti-Russian and pro-war emotions have become very strong in Poland. The atmosphere has so changed. But I inactive think that there are many national revolutionaries in Poland, as well as average people with large potential, feeling patriotic, social, Christian, that is, close to the issues we have fought for for years. They're anti-liberals, and that's truly the most crucial thing.
The last question I would like to ask you could become the subject of another discussion we have in the future. Listening to you, I conclude that most of your views, concepts and analyses coincide with the beliefs of a true, anti-systemic, revolutionary left. This may lead us to conclude that there are no crucial differences between the anti-systemic, anti-globalist left and the anti-systemic, anti-globalist right. Do you think that we can inactive draw maps of the political scene divided into the left and right or should we usage another categories?
– An crucial consequence of the events of 9 October 2021 in Rome was that more than 100,000 people from the left, right, center – no difference. Everyone protested against the government of dictatorship, sanitary tyranny. The protest was headed by us. The crucial thing is that so many people understood it. They realized that there was a plan to take people's freedom and that they had to respond somehow. And this was a classical example that right-wingers, left-wingers, and centrists could work together. Like Concorde Square in France. This is 1 of those moments we can't waste. On that day we had won, although of course the establishment set his traps to put us in jail and convict us. However, we put him a serious legal challenge. In the last fewer days, I've filed reports against all the authorities and officers who have handled cases against me in the last 2 years.
Before we're done talking, I just wanted to ask you briefly about Massimo Morsello. We mentioned it earlier and wanted to remind any of our Readers of it as an artist, but besides a revolutionary activist. How could you describe your friend and comrade Massimo in a fewer words?
– Well, we were together from 1981, for 20 years, until his death. We've done amazing things together, created a fresh force. He was the author of a number of works that remained in the hearts of many people. He was a peculiar man who left an incredible legacy. I'm trying my best to proceed his ideas. You could say he's inactive alive among us. We must believe that as Christians. We are here, on Earth, but there are besides people who do what we do, above us, somewhere in heaven.
Roberto, thank you for making time for us.
– Thank you.
Matthew Piskorski spoke
Roberto Fiore (born 1959 in Rome) is an Italian politician, leader of the Forza Nova party. He spent 20 years on political emigration in the UK. associate of the European Parliament from 2008 to 2009. Founder and leader of the European Alliance for Peace and Freedom.
photo of “X” profile by Roberto Fiore
Think Poland, No. 49-50 (3-10.12.2023)
