We will gotta rediscover Russia after Putin. And it will be difficult, due to the fact that we will meet people shaped by Putinism. With Alice Lugen, author of "The Empire of Wrath. Paradoxes of Putin's Russia" (Black, 2026) and "Zato. Closed Cities in the russian Union and Russia" (Black, 2025) is interviewed by Stasia Budzisz.