In defence of the state, we must go for various measures. besides the final ones.

The subject of illegal immigration does not vanish from public debate. The Confederation's firm approach on this subject, including its approach to the tasks of state services, frequently raises surprise and even outrage in mainstream. And so it was besides on the show at Agnieszka Gozdyra in Polsata. Michał Wawer had to explain step by step not only the phenomenon we are dealing with, but besides the function of the state. And how the threat should be addressed by the services that are designated to guarantee the safety of citizens.

Michał Wawer: That's why we have the Border Guard, that's why we have the boundaries, that's why we have the state, so that illegal immigrants can't cross the border of that country with impunity. And, of course, we request to keep all the means to spare these most extremist solutions. Put up reinforcements at the border, put up physical barriers, put up informing signs, shoot at the warning.
But if individual has clearly bad intentions and wants to break the law, get into our country illegally, that's why we have the services, so that they're equipped with weapons to halt them.

How do you identify who has bad intentions?

If 2 years ago on our border, a large organized group is going with bottles, according to any reports of grenades, to the barrier to the posts of our Border Guard, then the situation is completely obvious. Both the Polish border and Lampedusa in Italy. We are talking about large groups of aggressive men. Here we are not dealing with any wave of innocent women and children sneaking around under cover of night, trying to get into our country, fleeing a war just across the border. These are organized groups that smugglers have smuggled here for half the world. And they're besides utilizing physical strength trying to get into our country. There are doubtful situations here, of course, too, but very frequently these are situations without doubt.

How can 1 reconcile the protection of life from conception with specified demands to shoot people?

– There is no uncertainty at all. According to the Catholic Church, man has the right to self-defense. This right besides extends to the state. We are talking about the de facto situation of war. What happened on the Polish border 2 years ago was a hybrid war. And everyone said about it openly that Lukashenko was fighting a hybrid war against Poland. And we in war have the right to defend our country, our nation.

Are we at war?

– If there are organised groups of smugglers who are trying to flood Europe with a wave of immigrants, it is possible to talk about the state of war. There are experts, scientists who talk about demographic weapons, talk about hybrid warfare. This, of course, is not a war in the sense of being so classically military that individual sends tanks to our borders. But the effect is the same and it is simply a very akin situation.

Poles besides emigrated. They ran away, too.before persecution.

These are things that are completely incomparable. erstwhile people from Poland fled communism in search of a better life, they fled to countries that wanted to receive them. They wanted to receive Western European countries. In the past, they were much more firm than they are now. And if they did not want to accept people from Poland, they would have the full right to besides put a barrier on their border and just not let them in.

Killing is the eventual measure. Shooting doesn't mean killing right away, but it's a last hotel due to the fact that you can't halt individual from entering a country if you're not ready to just scope for physical strength to halt them. And comparing Poles who fled to countries of Western Europe with their consent, due to the fact that they were legalized there and worked hard with people who run illegally to the barrier with bottles and grenades to get to Poland or to Germany and live from social work, these are absolutely incomparable things.

We request people to come here and work due to the fact that we have a demographic problem?

– To any extent, of course, we can fill the gaps in the external labour market, abroad labour force. But we should do it on our own terms. It can't be like the PiS government does. So bringing in any number of people without any criteria really. This is unacceptable. Poland needs an informed immigration policy. Where do we have a circumstantial number of people, from where, in what competition? Where are they expected to come, where they get permits to work limited territorially? This is simply quite a few criteria that we can implement and we should implement so that it truly helps the Polish economy, not just build social immigration to Poland. due to the fact that at the minute immigrants are entitled to all social benefits.

Treasurer Confederacy@MichaelWawer In @PolsatNewsPL: that's why we have the Border Guard, that's why we have the boundaries, that's why we have the state, so that illegal immigrants of this country's border can't go unpunished. And of course, you gotta keep all the means to spare these... pic.twitter.com/aH7OafEmhQ