Today's discussion on feminism is increasingly little and little part of a substantive discussion. More frequently there is tension, discord and the feeling that we are at a crucial minute of social change. In an interview with Aleksandra Karasińska, author of the book Why Feminism Pays, we look under the surface of debates where stereotypes, simplifications and political labels have dominated for years. Alexandra responds to them with numbers, studies that show the everyday life of women that cannot be ignored. Both individual anecdotes and hard facts appear in the conversation. This interview is an effort to capture this moment: the minute erstwhile feminism ceases to be a "modern slogan" and becomes a question of what future we want as a society.
Julia Dudek: The word "feminist" inactive creates negative associations – even women who support equality do not want to describe themselves that way. Where does this come from?
Aleksandra Karasińska: This is the consequence of a long-standing communicative of the right and the Church, according to which feminists are terrible boys hating men. Many do not realize that feminism simply means striving for equality. There are many definitions of feminism, but for me this simple and apparent Gloria Steinem: Feminism recognizes equality and full humanity of women and men. I think feminism is simply a fundamental question of dignity, due to the fact that women as well as men have the right to live their lives well. Women's rights are human rights, a fundamental ethical issue.
I can see that this negative association with “feminism” besides persists in the generation “Z”, or mine. Although it may seem that a certain view should be over.
The younger generations respond badly to the word “feminism” or “equality”, even though we live in the minute backlashu, i.e. ‘fops’. This is interesting, due to the fact that for the first time in past the most misogynistic, backward, anti-female attitudes are more frequently seen in younger generations. It's a global phenomenon. The IPSOS UK and Global Institute for Women’s Leadership studies show that many young people believe emancipation has gone besides far, and especially young men think so. At the same time, they are convinced that besides much is required of men in the name of equality.
Do you think it's besides the consequence of us surviving in a social media planet where algorithms rule?
I'm certain it's part of the answer, due to the fact that the algorithms are very polarizing. They're designed for a circumstantial purpose, and I'm very struggling with the thought that technology is neutral. It's not. Algorithms on platforms have 1 circumstantial goal: making money. If polarization causes more commitment and more time spent on a given platform, then it is reinforced by an algorithm due to the fact that it means more money. More than half of the people in the world, as the yearly Reuters Institute study shows, derives all cognition about the planet from digital platforms specified as Facebook, Youtube or Tiktok. As a result, this polarisation and decline in the field of compromise, the disappearance of the political centre, make large groups of people, and especially young people, support anti-democratic, utmost politicians. They, in turn, exploit women's rights and promise that as shortly as women return to the kitchen and children, the planet will become simpler, safer. It's 1 of the false promises of populists.
Why do young people reject feminism?
Young people at an early phase of their lives, e.g. in advanced school or early college, do not see so much inequality. due to the fact that girls learn well, they win in sports. And we know from investigation that real inequality strikes women at the time of birth of the first child. At the same time, young people hear a lot about "Girl Power" in the media and on platforms, and they see quite a few commercial messages based on the strength of women and feminist slogans. There is besides a full toxic “manosphere” that openly calls for sexism, humiliation of women. This is besides where they gain platforms and influencers like Andrew Tate, accused of rape and human trafficking, calling for force against women who have 11 million fans on X.
The book says that women's authority is inactive little recognized. Why?
The gap in authority means that women's knowledge, work and competence are inactive being reduced. Practically all female experiences patronage or ignoring. Depreciating women, mansplaining, interruption, unfortunately, is inactive a common practice in Polish companies and in Polish media. I will mention here to a study by the female in Law Foundation, which summarises the survey of 2022, which has been attended by almost 600 respondents. The study shows that 85% of women working in the law sector have experienced a gender-based simplification in competences. They said that the fact of being a female affects their chances of professional improvement or that there are simply difficulties in everyday work. 71% of respondents felt that being a female had an adverse effect on the career decisions of the superiors, 50% of the lawyers surveyed declared that she had problem reconciling her career with her private life.
What about the issue of inequality? I get opinions that equal pay “are already.” What's the truth?
In all kind of work, in all sector, in all profession women are paid below men. Meanwhile, 78% of Poles do not know the concept of pay gap at all, and 70% of companies have never discussed it. The authoritative gap in Poland is about 8%, but corrected, comparing akin workers, with the same education and experience in a akin position, reaches 18-20%. The fresh EU rules on wage transparency will only partially improve the situation, as they will give an approximate insight into wage forks, allowing women to better negociate wages.
Why do so many people think that “there is already equality”?
It's an illusion. According to Global sex Gap Poland takes over 100 years to accomplish full equality. We are 1 of the EU's worst countries in terms of reproductive wellness and access to gynaecological care. Polish women are well educated, but severely discriminated at work, underrepresented in places where power and money are: in politics and business. They are statistically poorer and at hazard of poorness in old age. We besides have a plague of home force and immense force against women on the Internet. As a consequence of home violence, about 400 women die a year, and according to authoritative data the Ministry of Labour and Social Policy, as much as 30% of those surveyed admit to force in the family.
On company boards, the parity increases the profit by 8%. What does that come from?
Research on the benefits of diversity has been known since the 1970s since the work of Prof. Rosabeth Moss Kanter. Companies with diverse leadership are more innovative and manage talent better. Women on board besides mean more sustainable, little risky strategies, more ethical environmental decisions and a better knowing of the needs of consumers. And more profit.
The book quotes a woman’s story: “We late bought a house. I was the 1 who paid the full bail, and I managed all the contacts with our lawyers. My partner had no contact with them at all, but they put an account in his name and sent a letter addressed only to him.” I was very surprised, but I was besides saddened due to the fact that I did not anticipate that disregard for women could proceed to be so.
Your reaction is akin to many who have read my book.Such "small" omissions and discriminations are common, each of us knows them. This is why, in addition to the planet Bank, the UN and university research, I besides call for regular forms of neglecting women. due to the fact that they make up a patriarchal culture.
There are usually more women than men on feminist panels. Do you think it's a question of their deficiency of interest in the subject?
Women are inactive dominant in non-equality meetings due to the fact that men frequently feel discomfort there. They find it hard to face the fact that they live in a privileged system. any of them feel “called to the board” and respond defensively, so they like to avoid these topics. In Poland, we are only beginning a serious discussion on how to affect men in actions for equality. delight note the paradox: our society already accepts women's professional work, but inactive does not accept equal the sharing of household responsibilities. The second job, which is cleaning, cooking, caring for children and the elderly, falls almost exclusively on women. And it's inactive their natural duty. And then politicians ask dramatically “why do Polish women not want to give birth?”
Do men read your book, too?
Yes, I meet the men who read it. I see it on social media, they besides approach me after copyright meetings or lectures – besides at business conferences, where men are the majority. And that gives me large satisfaction, due to the fact that from the beginning I emphasize that it is besides a book for them. The title “Why Feminism Pays” is not random, as is the footnote “A Book for Women and Men”. I besides wrote the chapter "The Mystery We request to Solve – Feminism and Men". As I mentioned, we have a backlash, according to the UN report. UN Women Global In all 4th country in the world, women's rights are restricted. To prevent further erosion of our rights, we request allies. In Poland, I can see hope, for example, that many men solidarity with women during the Women's Strike. Common banners, the presence of young fathers with daughters and partners. I believe that the slogan “You will never go alone” is simply a fresh embodiment of our Polish solidarity. And we truly request it today.
Despite generational changes, stereotypes are inactive well. Do you think that in 100 years, we will scope full equality?
It's a long drive ahead of us and quite a few work. This is the first generation of young people to prove little favourably to women. It's an emergency signal. Hillary Clinton spoke about this recently, recalling that during Trump's first tenure after 50 years the right to abortion was waived in the United States. As a result, half the state of abortion is illegal present and women hazard wellness and life. We saw akin tragedies in Poland. Equality does not come alone, 1 must prosecute it and fight for it.
What emotions accompany you after the book is published?
I had quite a few concerns, 1 of the publishers I talked to even suggested to remove the word “feminism” from the title, due to the fact that it would scare readers away. This shows how much this word is stigmatized in Poland. And yet present I feel satisfaction. The book has become an excuse for many discussions and meetings: at multi-thousand conferences and in tiny towns. I meet women's organizations all over the country, frequently very local, which I didn't know about before. I see women supporting each other, starting networks of cooperation. This is besides the effect of a "fop", due to the fact that erstwhile rights are received, women start working together.
I have a feeling that the siblings have grown a lot in fresh years. What are your feelings?
Definitely. This is seen in movements specified as the Black Protest or the Women's Strike. The women went out on the streets, saw how many of us there were. Studies show that after 2020, support for legal abortion has doubled to Week 12 – present almost 80% Poles are in favour of liberalisation of the law. It proves that working together makes sense. That's why we can't give back what our mothers and grandmothers have already won.
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After this conversation, it is hard to stay indifferent. Alexandra recalls that equality does not come alone. The "Cofka" we are seeing present is not an abstract theory, but it touches circumstantial women, their families and everyday life. At the same time, there is simply quite a few hope in her words: in the sisterhood, which in Poland grows stronger, in male allies, who increasingly appear at protests and in hundreds of local initiatives, which show that change starts where people begin to talk with 1 voice. This interview ends in a speech that resounds from all Ola's activities – with emotion, but besides determination. due to the fact that if feminism is simply a substance of equality and dignity, it is worth fighting for all day.
